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Maya

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by DLimited, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. Galbias

    Galbias Prince

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    Very glad to see the Kuna to Construction change!

    You'll need more than one city to get all 3 luxury bonuses for Indonesia since you can only get 2 per city, but yeah, the 20% growth especially is great.
     
  2. peterw1987

    peterw1987 Prince

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    I dunno if someone can check if there is something wrong with the start bias.
    But when I want to try Maya, out of 10 reroll, 8 times I either have no jungle/forest near me, or only 1-3 forest/jungle tile.
     
  3. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    I'd say thats balance. Even 1 kuna is too much that early (in its current state), Maya born in the middle of big forest is just auto win

    What just came to my mind is that civs may be balanced not only by buffing or nerfing it straight, but by changing their starting location or even changing some buildings or improvements that work better with one civ then with all others.
     
  4. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

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    Man, Kunas at Masonry hurts. It probably needed to happen, but now the Maya feel pretty meh. No faith generation while you're gunning Mathematics means if you want that religion, Great Prophet has to be first pick, no questions asked. Masonry is an investment away from Mathematics; Construction was just a few turns. :(

    Edit: Oh, dang, you can't even choose a Great Prophet until you've founded? RIP Maya.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
  5. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Construction makes sense but I wouldn't mind seeing it moved to something on the path to mathematics, like Calendar or maybe even wheel.
     
    IcyAngel likes this.
  6. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    I think its too strong for having it at wheel... My opinion is that it should Constrution would be good, but together with reducing total amount of science you get from it... (+1 science +2 faith) in the beginning is okay, but (3 food 2 hammers 8(!) science 2 faith) in the end of renaissance is too much... Should be 5 or 6 science and less than 3 science at Maths
     
  7. Forsti

    Forsti Warlord

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    I agree with Owlbebach that wheel wouldn't be a good option. I mean Maya would then be just as strong as it was before, because you'd just research wheel first and you'd get your first kuna just as soon as you did before.
     
  8. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    The Maya were not ruined by this. You just have to build a more traditional faith-generator in the early game, grab your Kuna as a side-step on the way to Mathematics, and go from there. Pushes the Maya back about 50 turns overall, which is what they needed.
     
    Gokudo01, vyyt and LukaSlovenia29 like this.
  9. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

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    I dunno. I think this is quite a nasty nerf, after giving them a run. Will see how they fare in the hands on the AI, though.
     
  10. pandasnail

    pandasnail Prince

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    Is it actually supposed to Masonry tho? Cause the changelog says Construction, and that makes more sense to me at least. 3 columns later is a huge nerf, esp when getting to a separate 3rd column tech is Maya's whole reason for being. So, last minute change or did you forget for a second that TECH_CONSTRUCTION is Masonry and TECH_MASONRY is Construction?
     
  11. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

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    The changelog is wrong. It's at Masonry... sadly.
     
  12. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Change log is wrong name but correct tech. I wanted it classical.
     
  13. pandasnail

    pandasnail Prince

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    Well, in that case, it does feel late to me, esp Kuna being a faith generator. I admit, I haven't, like, put an absolute ton of thought in the way you do, so idk for sure. There actually the first-met opponent in my current game, perhaps they'll do well enough to change my mind.
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Ultimately, and perhaps this is just me, I feel that the obsession with early founding for the Maya betrays the flexibility provided by early science getting you to Mathematics ASAP. If you do it quickly enough you can get an extra bak'tun or two, thus greatly enhancing your power in the pre-turn-200 period.

    G
     
  15. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

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    If one wants to get to Mathematics ASAP, Masonry is not the way to go, sorry.
     
  16. pandasnail

    pandasnail Prince

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    Oh, the AI Mayans always have the tech lead, and really the everything lead, they needed a nerf, just think its a bit much.
     
    Takagi Hiro likes this.
  17. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I didn't say it was.
     
  18. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

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    Sorry, I guess I misunderstood, then.
     
  19. Starrynite120

    Starrynite120 Prince

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    You did seem to imply it though. What exactly do you mean by early science? Because with the Kuna moved to Masonry, there's no unique source of early science for the Maya (and it seemed you were saying there is). As it stands, there's now nothing unique about the Maya to help them get to Mathematics. Of course, you may want it that way, but it isn't clear from what you said.
     
  20. pandasnail

    pandasnail Prince

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    He's talking about it used to be I think, that in addition to the early found and the early enhance, all that science from Agriculture Kunas would get you to Mathematics and the baktuns super early, and really set things up for a snowball. I realize Gazebo used present tense, but I think that was just poetic license or whatever.
     

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