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Maya

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by DLimited, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Okay, I was going to stay out of this, mainly because I think the Kuna is terrible and Maya were among my bottom tier civs even before this change, but you guys just don't seem to understand eachother so I'll translate the situation for you.

    The reason why people are upset over this is because of how the Mayan UA works, the earlier you reach mathematics to trigger it the better it gets, not only because you have the UA unlocked for more turns, but also because the earlier turns are worth way more years (and the Mayan UA is based on yearcount (unless I've completely botched this) not turncount. For that reason the minor science-loss from not having the Kuna unlocked from the start is probably going to cost you more than 1 GP.
    The other problem is that the Kuna is faith-based, which means you pretty much have to found a religion to get value out of it. But with the Kuna moved so far into the tech-tree you're forced to make a choice;
    either you beeline Mathematics to unlock your UA as early as possible and delay the Kuna to the point where it's not going to help you found a religion at all,
    or you beeline Masonry to unlock the Kuna early enough to maybe help you squeeze out the last faith-points necessary to get a religion and delay Mathematics and your UA to the point where you've lost multiple great people.

    Neither of those options are good, fun or interesting.
     
    Takagi Hiro, vyyt and Starrynite120 like this.
  2. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

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    Totally agree with @Funak - Maya nerf is huge. They were one of leading AI civs as they got workers and could build kunas instantly - advantage a player never had. Right now they are nothing special and I never felt they were awesome - they had wonder builder mentality usually, which made them easy target for player or neighbourhood friendly AI warmonger. Now it's going to be even harder for them. And more generic :/
     
    Takagi Hiro likes this.
  3. Starrynite120

    Starrynite120 Prince

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    It does seem odd for a faith improvement to come so late. Yeah, it has science too, but its real draw was the faith, which by the point you get it, it isn't that desirable.
     
  4. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    Well you get extra faith after your religion is founded... Don't you need faith to enhance and spread it? And you get quite a lot of faith from tiles that you like to work even without faith
     
  5. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I do not think Maya was OP for human at all, the only complaint I had was that like 1/4 games on Deity or Immortal his start would just be ridiculous and ruin the game. I've seen him at 28 techs while Russia was 2nd best at 17. I think a simple move to the wheel might have been enough to address this

    The UA needs not only to come early, but a big part of its value is using that prophet to fast enhance, now Maya has basically no advantage in the religious race which really hurts that move.
     
    Dawnpromise and Takagi Hiro like this.
  6. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    With so much extra faith i don't think we can talk about no advantage. Indeed you loose that free prophet trick but still you will most likely be first to enhance.
    However as i said i would prefer kuna provide less science.
     
  7. Starrynite120

    Starrynite120 Prince

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    True, however faith is the most valuable at the very beginning and only decreases in value. So the kuna is now unavailable when it is most valuable. Seems to be a really huge nerf. It did need a nerf, but this is crazy harsh. Perhaps making it available earlier again but reducing the initial faith yield would be better. Just pump up the faith yield to what it is now with a tech.
     
  8. PapaRockett

    PapaRockett Prince

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    Erm... does Pacal need some kind of nerf?

    He's normally a runaway anyway, but this just takes the cake.

    6/6/4 policies, while I'm second in lead with 7 policies. His pantheon is Goddess of Love so it's not the camp one. Also this is epic speed, notice it's only turn 175
     
  9. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    I've seen similar stuff with other races, but in my recent games Pacal performed quite bad
     
  10. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    You must have messed something up. He is in classical era.

    EDIT: Actually, did he go for To the Glory of God? Because that belief is completely out of whack.
     
  11. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    Thats a good point, i changed it from 5 yields to 2 and it is still very strong
     
  12. randomnub

    randomnub Prince

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    Is this a bug or feature? Just unlocked Progress as you can see by the instant yelds notifications (I left AH at 1 turn, then swapped to mining, then swapped to pottery, got enough culture and then swapped back... random ramble about this necessary micro), but I also get to select a free policy. Part of the Maya UA or some weird stuff you can replicate?
    Spoiler :

    civmaya.png

     
  13. randomnub

    randomnub Prince

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    Ok it's quite hilarious and definitely a bug, 3 turns later another free policy :D That happened after I switched back to Pottery that was 1 turn to completition. Guess nobody playing Mayas lately or my install went nuts.

    Edit: well it looks like I get a free policy upon completing any ancient tech past the first, onward to github.

    Spoiler :
    civmaya2.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Just tried this, cannot reproduce your outcome.

    G
     
  15. randomnub

    randomnub Prince

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    Damn me neither :| At least was trying vs the AI and seemed normal, but they picked Tradition. Trying with Progress again next.

    Edit: nope, can't reproduce.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  16. randomnub

    randomnub Prince

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    How feasible is to add a nubfriendly GUI support for Mayan calendar? :p

    mayancal.png

    Something like a turn counter telling how many turns are left before the next b'ak'tun, where the BC/AD time is shown.

    For reference (I swear I google that every time I play Maya), here are the in game turns for standard speed:

    Turn 62 - 4th b'ak'tun (not sure it's even possible to get there that early in VP)
    Turn 72
    Turn 86
    Turn 101
    Turn 117
    Turn 133
    Turn 152
    Turn 183
    ...
     
    Hinin, CrazyG, thecraftybee and 2 others like this.
  17. LukaSlovenia29

    LukaSlovenia29 Emperor

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    @Gazebo , is there any chance of such a turn counter 'til the next GP person be introduced to VP?
     
  18. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    There are 20 tun in a k'atun and 20 k'atun in a bak'tun, etc. It's not rocket surgery.

    I don't think it's necessary, personally, but this gets asked a lot. Perhaps the tooltip could be amended to explain that the Mayan calendar is base 20 instead of base 12, like people are used to?
     
    vyyt likes this.
  19. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Emperor

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    "Rocket surgery"?
     
  20. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Rocket science + brain surgery = Rocket surgery + Brain science
    I guess.
     
    vyyt and ElliotS like this.

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