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Mayan Great Person Priority

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Resipsa, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    First and foremost I'd like to thank this community for being very helpful to newcomers like myself; just won my first immortal game (Incas) thanks to the help of the community. I'd like to tryout the Mayans on immortal and wonder what should be my great person priority I'm thinking Prophet first to enhance religion, Scientist to Plant/Engineer to fast build a wonder, etc.

    I've tried using the search function but perhaps other Mayans can give me some insight on what they look for in picking which great person to prioritize.
     
  2. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

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    Generally, the first three should probably be (in some order):

    Prophet, Scientist, and/or Engineer

    The exact order really depends on your game and competition.

    If no other civs are interested in religion, you can either delay the Prophet (or if you want to spread early, choose it first).

    If you're going for Science or Diplomacy VC, then choosing a Scientist earlier is more important.

    If you've got a killer desert start, then pushing up the Engineer to rush Petra makes sense.

    And if you're playing a Cultural VC, you might actually squeeze a Great Artist in there early on.

    So there are no hard rules. A lot of it depends on your particular game and play style.
     
  3. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Agree. Unless you're next to Ethiopia or the Celts, you should have strong enough faith generation to not leap to use a GPr to found or enhance; and that early on, using a missionary to spread may make more sense (depends on map and situation, of course). An early GS, planted for an academy, can be huge. Also, if you are not on a Pangaea, getting a Great Admiral fairly early (not first, but early) to cross ocean tiles in search of missing civs/trading partners and CSs can be very helpful. Otherwise you have to wait to take 2 policies in Commerce, which may not be the best use of policy choices, or wait to research Astronomy.
     
  4. Genghis.Khan

    Genghis.Khan Person

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    Great Engineer if:
    :c5production: is Low (under 15 :c5production: in Capital)
    Great Scientist if:
    :c5science: Output is Good
    Great Prophet if:
    Found a religion and have low :c5faith:
    Great Artist if:
    Aiming for a Early :c5culture: Cultural Victory
    Great Merchant if:
    You are about to go bankrup and need :c5gold: cash
    Great General if:
    You are defending your :c5capital: against a powerful :c5war: invader or playing as an Warmonger
    Great Admiral if:
    You have a considerable navy and are playing as an Warmonger in Water-Based Maps

    My Preferred Order:

    1) Prince and King Difficulties
    Great Scientist -> Great Engineer -> Great Prophet -> Great Artist -> Great Merchant -> Great General -> Great Admiral

    2) Emperor and Higher Difficulties
    Great Engineer -> Great Scientist -> Great Prophet -> Great Artist -> Great General -> Great Merchant -> Great Admiral
     
  5. Wargizmo

    Wargizmo Warlord

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    My preferred order: Scientist -> Artist -> Engineer -> Prophet

    I usually try to go for the scientist first and settle him, the quicker you can get through the tech tree the better in this game... better troops, more useful buildings, better chance of getting wonders you want. There are obviously some exceptions, using the engineer to get petra up in a non capital city is one good example, since it usually takes too long to build before the AI gets it but as a general rule if in doubt, I go for the scientist.

    Second I'll go for the artist, for similar reasons -> settle him and let the culture roll in. You get through rationalism quicker, which means more science.

    After that the engineer will usually be used to grab one of the powerful wonders that come just on or before the industrial era such as porcelain tower, louvre, taj mahal, big ben. If there's really nothing worth grabbing I'll go for the prophet.

    Why not the early prophet? The opportunity cost of delaying the settled scientist and artist just doesn't seem worth it, I usually have a good religion anyway because of the mayan shrines and I'm often not far off enhancing or have already enhanced by the time the first long count comes along so I don't really save much by getting the prophet. Sometimes I'll even go for the admiral before the prophet if there's a lot of ocean that needs exploring.
     
  6. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    something that hasn't been mentioned yet is the factor of increasing costs for the next GP.

    for example if you're about to pop a GE naturally from an early wonder, taking a scientist/engineer/artist/merchant is a bad idea because you'll probably never get that engineer now. taking a prophet, admiral or general doesn't increase those costs.

    admiral is also underrated for continents maps & others where early oceanic exploration is a huge advantage.
     
  7. Crafty Bison

    Crafty Bison King

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    seconded for chazycat. Admirals for early oceanic exploration are really big (finding other civs reduces the cost of techs they've already discovered, as well as the CS and their quests and NW's etc. Especially good if you're close to a natural GS, for example, then you can double down on the next baktun. Usually get GS first (or second as described). Agree with other posters (depending on the game!) that GP's work well saved for later. Also GE not required till there's a wonder you really really want and won't get otherwise. GG can occasionally be worht it too if you got a multi DoW just before, and also has no great person penalty disadvantage too.
     
  8. Meridian36

    Meridian36 Chieftain

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    you probably need to build Great Libary first, because you want to get Theology as fast as possible. If youre on the mooment to get a natural Great Person, choose a prophet. Great General is a waste if you want to go militairy, just pick Honour. All other situations pick a GS first followed by a artist. The scienist in combination with the great libary and Landed Elite enables you to get fast trough all other classical and ancient techs. you can better save your GE for other important wonders like sistine chapel or porcelain tower or petra, as said. Admiral in the beginning pf the game is only usefull for exploration, but you get sailing a lot earlier. third bonus person can be a great prophet. If you put in all your citys a pyramid you get easy a prophet around the second bonus person. with the bonus prophet you enchance your religion. this is the way i use the long count
     
  9. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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  10. Meridian36

    Meridian36 Chieftain

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    i think it is... Getting to Theology as fast as possible is something you want with the Maya. But with the maya dont waste time by researching mining or AH, just get pottery, followed by writing, while you build GL research Calendar. I used it succesfully.
     
  11. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Agree that GL on Immortal is a crap-shoot (whether playing Mayans or anyone else), and those hammers are probably better devoted to a regular library and other worthy uses. That said, I have succumbed to the temptation when I've stolen an early worker, popped a Writing ruin and had a riverside forest or two I wanted to chop anyway -- leapfrogging to very early Philosophy and NC by turn 50 is great when it happens. But it isn't a strategy that you can count on. The times I've tried this and failed, I've used the wonder-fail gold (from being beat to GL), plus other available gold, to buy the library in my capital.
     
  12. Crafty Bison

    Crafty Bison King

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    I dunno about it on immortal - deity is certainly too rough to get regularly, but if you have the start to go for it (and you have to have this :)), you can get it when you go for it most of the time - if you can get it turn 33-34 the (immortal!) AI rarely beats it.

    Having said that, what you have to do to get that time usually cancels out half the benefit of getting it in the long run, so I'd rarely consider it worth the effort. Also you have to know what you'll do if you go for it and miss. Got a plan to make up the loss, or just gonna re-roll? :)
     
  13. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    IMO, the power of the pyramid is better than the free GP from the Mayan's UA. I'd rather focus on settlers than wonders in the early game. You can still research theology very quickly if you have a bunch of small cities with pyramids, if you want.
     
  14. Hustapha Thool

    Hustapha Thool Warlord

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    In my experience getting GL on immortal would be a very rare possibility. I almost always see it go very soon after I obtain writing, about 2 turns into my library build. I have been beaten to it even by popping pottery on first turn
     
  15. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    ICS is the only scenario I'd be tempted to take a shot at it. Quick NC and you will never worry about it again. Admittedly, I feel rather uncomfortable without building it at all. On the other hand, I have very little experience with ICS. But it is more than iffy on immortal. G&K added more wonder lovers, so the race is closer than ever.
     
  16. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    this is my game plan any time I roll the Mayans:

    1) forget all wonders
    2) forget the NC
    3) spam settlers as fast as humanly possible
    4) production focus a pyramid in every new city
    5) get some CBs
    6) use religion for happiness
    7) ??
    8) profit.
     
  17. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    if u dont take scientist as 1. gp from calendar and build a academy u havent understood the game.

    Only reason not to get one d be to have wonder spamed early and gonna get a free guy from points soon - so d get an general or admiral to scout for an water map - but this should be very unlickly (u d just have gotten theo way too late then)

    admiral to scout ocean sounds like 2nd best pick anyway
     
  18. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    so r happy with 10 size 3 cities which give u 50 science overall?

    A developed big cap with amny wonders and a medium amount of other cities will definatly give more science as many spamed cities with pyramid in mdium and even more long run
     
  19. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    the idea is to get the religion happiness up ASAP, so those cities don't stagnate at size 3, they all keep growing. and I shoot for 15-20 cities.

    also you wont get nearly as much faith with less cities, that's the other half of the pyramid's benefit. buying a pagoda every few turns due to massive faith helps the cities keep growing even more.
     
  20. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    yeah well maybe we got different definitions of a good game but i tried the maya ICS pyramid spam and suddently it was turn 100 and I barly have had education.

    With a tradition 4 city stale i ll be in ren era at turn 100.
    And got capital big enough to get all the important wonders in few turns
     

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