Mayan Great Person Priority
- Thread starter Resipsa
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every next city just slows down sp generation and will never grow beyond size 10 (thats where the huge science starts comming) and without going deep rati tree there is no fast winning time - and that all I care about
if u just want spam cities and dont care when u win sure - keep spaming them ...
if u want go naked through street I wont stop u either
chazzycat
Deity
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- Oct 13, 2010
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- 2,918
depends what you mean by "fast". Last time I did this I won around turn 260...plenty good enough for immortal. It's an entirely different approach...getting deep into rationalism isn't as important when you have 20 cities all growing super-fast and building science infrastructure. Science comes more from population, less from specialists. And yes, cities can grow well beyond size 10 with aggressive farming, purchasing aqueducts, maritime CS, etc. In that game most of my cities were around 15 with the core 20-25.
maybe it's not gonna win any contests but 260 is pretty good for me, one of my better times. Considering OP said he is just trying immortal and this strategy works very well on that level...I thought I'd throw it out there.
if u want keep being condescending prick with terrible grammar i wont stop u either
maybe it's not gonna win any contests but 260 is pretty good for me, one of my better times. Considering OP said he is just trying immortal and this strategy works very well on that level...I thought I'd throw it out there.
if u want keep being condescending prick with terrible grammar i wont stop u either
hi everyone,
New here, could not resist replying to this thread.
Most of the time i have theology or the first B'ak'tun around turn 70. Which in turn i use to make the Hagia Sophia,after i make the first great prophet of 200 faith.
This means that at around turn 80 i have a complete religion enhanced.
the religion has:
pantheon: default fertillity rites depends on terrain
founder Tithe - +1 gold for every 4 followers
follower pagodas
follower cathedrals
enhancer itinerant preachers(spread 30% further) for map with water or the one that spreads faster
After that the next b'ak'tun i get a great prophet to spread the religion. The nice thing about the religion is the combo, Fertility rites indirectly boosts gold production. Also the pagodas and cathedrals mean that opponents have to produce faith to get the advantages of the religion. your own faith growth should be large enough to slowly get pagodas in all your cities.
On a lesser priority i try to make Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, a lot of great persons means a lot more gold.
At the moment i am playing on immortal, which is easy now most of the time. Anyone got any tips for the next difficulty? The AI gets lots of bonuses suddenly and i seems my start is not fast enough to survive against that onslaught.
New here, could not resist replying to this thread.
Most of the time i have theology or the first B'ak'tun around turn 70. Which in turn i use to make the Hagia Sophia,after i make the first great prophet of 200 faith.
This means that at around turn 80 i have a complete religion enhanced.
the religion has:
pantheon: default fertillity rites depends on terrain
founder Tithe - +1 gold for every 4 followers
follower pagodas
follower cathedrals
enhancer itinerant preachers(spread 30% further) for map with water or the one that spreads faster
After that the next b'ak'tun i get a great prophet to spread the religion. The nice thing about the religion is the combo, Fertility rites indirectly boosts gold production. Also the pagodas and cathedrals mean that opponents have to produce faith to get the advantages of the religion. your own faith growth should be large enough to slowly get pagodas in all your cities.
On a lesser priority i try to make Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, a lot of great persons means a lot more gold.
At the moment i am playing on immortal, which is easy now most of the time. Anyone got any tips for the next difficulty? The AI gets lots of bonuses suddenly and i seems my start is not fast enough to survive against that onslaught.
Cy4nwind, my advice to you would be to remember that computers suck at handling Citadels. Taking an early GG with your bonus may not be optimal in a theoretical sense, but if it allows you to slam a Citadel that the computers will spend the entire game marching their armies inside then it's well worth it. Any melee unit with some defensive promotions will be extremely difficult to kill and even if it does die the computer will rarely pillage it. The mightiest armies can fall to the most meager of defenses if a citadel is involved. The fact that it does 30 damage against anything is pretty absurd.
Syntax Error
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2010
- Messages
- 544
Generally, I take Engineer or Prophet first. With the 4-city approach, I end up popping one GE before I pop GSes (because I tend to go for the Pyramid right after NC). Might change for Mayans (I'll have to try them out again).
EDIT:
I do so because that first engineer is quite flexible. You can use it to pop useful wonders. Two of the most common I use:
1. As Mayans, establishing a religion shouldn't be a problem, however, if I want to get a headstart on spreading it, here's what I do: first faith-based prophet establishes a religion. Generate another prophet (300 faith) and time it with the Hagia Sophia. If you're ahead and you think you can hard-build HS, you can use the GE on Great Mosque. This give you an enhanced religion and 5 spreads. If you went Liberty, you can spread as much as 10 times (this is HUUUUGE especially if you have Religious Texts/Itinerant Preachers and religious buildings as follower beliefs).
2. Use that GE on Leaning Tower to get another GE. Use that for Porcelain Tower to get a Scientist. Two GP's for the price of one! Can't beat that!
EDIT:
I do so because that first engineer is quite flexible. You can use it to pop useful wonders. Two of the most common I use:
1. As Mayans, establishing a religion shouldn't be a problem, however, if I want to get a headstart on spreading it, here's what I do: first faith-based prophet establishes a religion. Generate another prophet (300 faith) and time it with the Hagia Sophia. If you're ahead and you think you can hard-build HS, you can use the GE on Great Mosque. This give you an enhanced religion and 5 spreads. If you went Liberty, you can spread as much as 10 times (this is HUUUUGE especially if you have Religious Texts/Itinerant Preachers and religious buildings as follower beliefs).
2. Use that GE on Leaning Tower to get another GE. Use that for Porcelain Tower to get a Scientist. Two GP's for the price of one! Can't beat that!
This is a good point. The one correction I would make is that the Great Prophet increases the cost of BOTH future great people generated by specialists/wonders and the
cost of future Great Prophets. For this reason, I generally wait for my first two Great Prophets to pop naturally before getting the free one from the Long Count. This generally happens at about the right time for the third great person. This allows you to found and enhance your religion for the smallest investment of
and then increases the cost of future Great Prophets to help you bank for late game (Industrial Era or later) great person purchasing.Of note here is that while the free Great Prophet from the long count does increase the cost of other great people, the free Great Prophet from the Haiga Sophia does not.
Getting back to the advice of not increasing great person cost, it may be beneficial to get a Great Admiral for your first great person. You can explore over the ocean earlier meeting city states and other nations to trade with. If you time your early great person generation correctly, you can pop a GE and a GS simultaneously from your capital for 100 points (on standard speed) before increasing the cost of future great people.
Its no good point, GS is just the way to go. . .
Admiral on continent map might be only on par option
U ll pop a great person from wonders erliest in turn 110+ with getting a combo gl/oracle henge/pyra maybe in turn 90+ - thats far beyond the 1. and 2nd long court pop. U guys have to understand that all what the long court does is to delay pops from cities from medi to ren and indu era, u ll still get them there if u fill slots AND on top of that get aditional people very early.
enhencing a religion twice very early brings like 0 benefit - the spreading starts anyway only after u bought an missonary so boosting it before doesnt help anything and u wont buy pagodas AND xx early anyway - so prophet can be like 3rd choise.
Same for a GE - the good wonders like Pisa or maybe even CI are available after like 3rd pop only anyway - so no reason to take GE to have him sit around waiting when u could have an academy and boost your tech.
sufficiency
King
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2013
- Messages
- 682
One thing to consider is that if you get something that is NOT a Prophet, General, or Admiral, it increases the cost of generating GPs afterwards. Therefore, you should NEVER pop a Merchant with the UA unless you got no other options.
BWS
Big Bradd Wolfe
As noted above, Long Count Prophets increase the cost of great people from specialists, even though other Prophets do not.
Mayans have very powerful UA and UB for warmongering imo! the UA is not too good for cultural and science games, as it pollutes your GP-pool. but in a domination game you need a variety of GP anyway, and its just great. one thing to remember is also that its very important to get theology early, not only because of the fact that you will have more turns with the UA, but also because the number of years/turn early in the game is much higher than it is later in the game. therefore you will recieve much more GP if you get theo early. having said that i like to get prophet > scientist and then merchant because i usually want the great enigneer for something like pisa or brandenburg or smth. i guess you can even time it nicely to get neuschwanstein with it. definately take general/admiral last.
Correct. For those who may be skeptical, attached is a Mayan save file for turn 62 (GOTM 54), where you can pick the GP of your choice and see how it affects the cost of other GPs.
In sum:
- A GS, GE, GM or GA will only increase the cost of your next GS, GE, GM and GA (from 100 GP points to 200).
- A Great Prophet increases the cost of your next Great Prophet (from 200 faith to 300 faith) AND the cost of your next GS, GE, GM and GA (from 100 GP points to 200).
- A Great General or Great Admiral does NOT increase the cost of any Great Persons (not even the cost of your next GG or GAdm -- still 200 GG or GAdm points)
Even though this is far from my play style, your approach makes sense. And agree completely with your latter points too.
How/why would a couple of CS allies change your view of Long-Count GP order?
Actually, it is a very good point.
The cost of the first great person is 100 points. If you can pop 1 (or even 2) at this early cost, you get the benefits the entire game.
I agree that an early GS is a huge benefit. Assuming that you plant an academy outside a city which has already completed the NC, that nets you 12
every turn.Your early opportunities for a great person (Long Count periods based on when you research Theology) are:
Turn 72
Turn 86
Turn 101
Let's say you get a GS planted on turn 72. The 29 turns of having the Academy could net you 348
before turn 101. That is about the maximum additional benefit that you could get.Now let's consider the benefit of having 2 GS (one generated on about turn 90-100 and the other as a Long count on turn 101). Having the 2 academies nets you 24
per turn. You can catch up to the lost research from delaying in 29 turns (assuming that is how long you would have had 1 vs 2). By turn 130, you are ahead in science to where you would have been.Now let's consider how long it might take you to generate another GS.
The cost for your first great person is 100. Assuming you take a GS on turn 72, the cost is now 200. Assuming you take a GE or GP on turn 86, the cost is now 300. Before Education you can generate a maximum of about 3 points towards a GS each turn. If you run 2 scientists in your University post Education, you can get about 9 more points for perhaps 12. These numbers assume that you have NE and a Garden in your city.
You are going to generate additional Long Count great people on:
Turn 117
Turn 133
Turn 152
Assuming that you took both the Admiral and General at some point in these first 6 Long Count periods, the cost is now at least 500 points to generate a great person. Getting that second Academy is now delayed considerably. It is delayed to the point where when you do generate a 2nd GS, you might want to save him to bulb techs at the end of the game.
I would rather have 2 Academies by turn 101 with a possible Manufactory or rushed wonder as well.
As far as the GP goes, it is all about maximizing your end of game
for purchasing great people. If you generate too much preindustrial period, you will waste it on a GP. Getting an early religion and then enhancing the religion before taking a free GP accomplishes this. You spend the least on developing you religion and then pop the free GP from the Long Count (and perhaps a 4th from Haiga Sophia) to spread your religion. Now you are safe from accidentally popping a GP on your hard earned which can start accumulating to purchase great people later on.
The Pilgrim
Deity
I really don't understand how you can pop an accidental GP. If you generate so much faith, you probably have a wide empire, in which case you're spending it on buildings. Sitting on too much faith is counterproductive, IMO. You're at risk of 'accidentally' ending up with 3k that could be great benefit early but haven't been used in time.
that could be great benefit early but haven't been used in time.Because at that stage of the game, just a couple CS allies can go a long way, and sometimes choosing one GP over another can be a wash. e.g. choose a GS now and a GE next, or choose a GE now and a GS next. It's not that big of a difference. But I've got 2 cultural CS's who want a GS and a third CS who wants culture. I'm adapting my play and picking the GS first.
The Pilgrim
Deity
There is no difference between having an academy earlier and having it later? You lost me.
your math got 2 flaws:
u wont even get a great scientist from points even at turn 100 usually (well GS might be possible with fast education and university filled)
and
even your 2nd pick have to be general/admiral
I ll pick the boost in turn 70-100 to get to education and ren era faster over a only in your math (cause of delayed education) net boost u done every day
and faith production going into GP isnt a "problem" at all, espacially as maya one will definatly pick at least a building like pagoda to spend faith on and I ll usually buy 2 missionaries early (and maybe a 3rd to fullfill CS quests)
I just leanred 1 thing hard way - taking gp out of pisa increases costs for other pops and maybe the hagia one does aswell?
So as maya i ll get the 1. gp by faith and the 2nd from long court and avoid just all others by spending faith on pagodas as early as possible (which help in endgame a lot)
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