Mayor of Boston is opposed to Chick-Fil-A in his City

[JollyRoger]

One requires a state charter.

 

[Lord Gay]

That hurts the people who work there more than it hurts corporate Chich-Fil-A. It just adds more people to the unemployment line. So in your efforts to hurt Chikc-Fil-A, realize you're risking hurting your own community even more.

Even more? Really? I'm not familiar with your posts Tofu. Can I infer from this that you don't support SSM? You say that you've never boycotted a business before. Can I infer that you've never been discriminated against?

Regardless of your views on gay rights, I'm sure you're an intelligent person and can appreciate that gays don't want to give money to a company that will, in turn, use profits to fund laws persecuting them. Would you want to give money to a person who hires thugs to beat you up? Who wants to fund their own suffering??

I'm sure you can also follow that people who aren't gay but think gays deserve equal rights also don't want their money being used to hurt gays. This applies to all sorts of issues. Many Christians are currently complaining in the US about how their tax dollars might be used to fund abortions... something they object to.

Everybody has causes and issues they don't want to support, and don't want any portion of their money being used to fund such activities. Do you really not see the existence of bigger issues at stake here than a few jobs?

Or is it that you just don't care about this particular issue?

 

[woody60707]

So a few minimum wage jobs, at one employer instead of another as Mango pointed out, are more important than principles?

Have you posted the same opinion in regard to the onslaught of boycotts by numerous conservatives for exactly the same reasons, and even others far more wacky?

Conservatives boycotting Oreos & Kraft?!? Really?!?



American Family Association

I've been making fun of Repubs a lot for there Oreos bit (and buying them, what is making me so fat). So your right, i should be making fun of the dems too.

 

[MobBoss]

Even more? Really? I'm not familiar with your posts Tofu. Can I infer from this that you don't support SSM? You say that you've never boycotted a business before. Can I infer that you've never been discriminated against?

Regardless of your views on gay rights, I'm sure you're an intelligent person and can appreciate that gays don't want to give money to a company that will, in turn, use profits to fund laws persecuting them. Would you want to give money to a person who hires thugs to beat you up? Who wants to fund their own suffering??

I'm sure you can also follow that people who aren't gay but think gays deserve equal rights also don't want their money being used to hurt gays. This applies to all sorts of issues. Many Christians are currently complaining in the US about how their tax dollars might be used to fund abortions... something they object to.

Everybody has causes and issues they don't want to support, and don't want any portion of their money being used to fund such activities. Do you really not see the existence of bigger issues at stake here than a few jobs?

Or is it that you just don't care about this particular issue?

I think he's pointing out that Chic-Fil-A supports a lot of charities that help out communities.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I think he's pointing out that Chic-Fil-A supports a lot of charities that help out communities.

I often wish it could be another way, but the Christian tendency to be charitable often comes with the hidden cost of the Christian tendency to seek control over society.

You take the good with the bad I guess and I certainly don't want to belittle the very real charity work done by many Christians. Doesn't change my stance on Chick-fil-A in this case, though.

 

[downtown]

You seem to think you know much about the specific motivations of Moreno, as well as those of Rahm Emanuel and Daniel Solis. Do you have any sources to support these allegations? Or are you merely trying to rationalize why they disagree with your own apparent opinions in these matters?

I live like, 4 blocks from the site. Moreno isn't my alderman (if you look at the map, you can see how gerrymandered everything is), but I can throw a football from my front step into his area...its where I spend most of my time. I've lived in this neighborhood for 2 years now, and I know that
1) there are several "conservative" businesses which operate without controversy in the neighborhood, including a Wal-Mart (whose history of discrimination puts Chick-Fil-A's to shame), and a Hobby Lobby. Ironically, the Hobby Lobby is RIGHT next to the proposed chicken location. If Moreno wants to have a no-SSM opposition rule, it is laughably enforced.

2) This shopping area has seen recent development, but preventing another tenet because of traffic seems weird, especially since there are two vacant buildings that the city is aggressively trying to filbig box type stores that went under). Saying a fast food joint would bring in too much traffic, while trying to lure an Old Navy next door isn't consistent. The city could always ask Chick-Fil-A to help build an outlet road, something other businesses in this neighborhood have done before.

3) Given Moreno's public comments, and the two Tribune articles in this thread, it is more than reasonable to conclude that Moreno's chief motivation is based on SSM, rather than traffic.

Speaking of which, what are your specific opinions regarding SSM and the discrimination of gays in other ways?

I am pro gay marriage, and I personally will not spend any money at Chick-fil-a. My disagreement is only with the city officials using arbitrary rules to keep development out, not with gay marriage.

Do you know if Chick-Fil-A has responded to Moreno's email asking them about their policies regarding the employment of gays? Or are they continuing to drag their feet in that regard?

That I do not know, although the other Chicago location apparently employs gays, and there hasn't been anything reported to the city about discrimination.

 

[MobBoss]

I often wish it could be another way, but the Christian tendency to be charitable often comes with the hidden cost of the Christian tendency to seek control over society.

If you are insinuating that their charitable giving to things like housing for homeless children, scholarships or foundations to help with childrens healthcare comes with strings attached, feel free to provide evidence of that; because in looking it up I dont see it.

 

[cav scout]

I'm okay with a politician using his influence to prevent a bigoted and/or hateful organization or business from setting up shop in his city. I wouldn't be okay with a politician doing the same just because he disagrees with their politics or "shares different values" or whatever.

Good thing there is absolutely no room for interpretation on what is bigoted and hateful! Otherwise a public official could abuse these terms and use them against anyone who disagrees with their politics or "shares different values" or whatever.

 

[The_Tyrant]

Boycott Chick Fil A? You're doing it wrong!
http://twitchy.com/2012/07/27/chick...wrong-reports-photos-show-it-is-a-total-fail/

 

[Formaldehyde]

1) there are several "conservative" businesses which operate without controversy in the neighborhood, including a Wal-Mart (whose history of discrimination puts Chick-Fil-A's to shame), and a Hobby Lobby. Ironically, the Hobby Lobby is RIGHT next to the proposed chicken location. If Moreno wants to have a no-SSM opposition rule, it is laughably enforced.

Only as I keep mentioning and you keep ignoring, this is obviously far more than SSM. Although that certainly has much to do with it...

Here is Moreno's own statement in the matter:

Why I won't let Chick-fil-A in my ward

Home Depot in the 2500 block of North Elston Avenue wants to sell a piece of its land so that a Chick-fil-A restaurant can open in the 1st Ward, where I am alderman. It would be the fast-food chain's first "stand-alone" Chicago restaurant. But to subdivide the land, the companies need my approval.

Initially, I had some traffic concerns with their plan. But then I heard the bigoted, homophobic comments by Chick-fil-A President Dan Cathy, who recently came out against same-sex marriage.

There are consequences for one's actions, statements and beliefs. Because of this man's ignorance, I will deny Chick-fil-A a permit to open a restaurant in my ward.

I've been in discussions with the company for the past nine months. Every time we met, I brought up my concerns that the company supported a homophobic agenda. My concerns were based on financial contributions made by WinShape Foundation, Chick-fil-A's charitable endeavor, to anti-gay groups. I was repeatedly told by company officials that "we (Chick-fil-A) are not political" and that the company "had no political agenda." Just recently, an attorney for the chain tried to convince me of Chick-fil-A's benevolence. During each meeting, I challenged the company to change its ways. Although I thought we had made some progress, Cathy's anti-gay comments made it abundantly clear what the company's true stance is toward equal rights.

In an interview with the Biblical Recorder, he was asked about the company's fervent support of the traditional family. "Well, guilty as charged," he said. "We are very much supportive of the family — the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that."

Obviously, Cathy has the right to believe, say and give money to whatever cause he wants. But my belief in equality is resolute, and if I were to take the easy way out and turn a blind eye to his remarks, I would be turning my back on the principles I stand for.

Chick-fil-A did put out a damage-control response, which was basically worthless lip service. If company officials read this commentary, they most likely will come back with the trite corporate accusation, which is rolled out every time a business has a problem with government: "Ald. Moreno doesn't care about jobs." Nothing could be further from the truth. I am proud of my track record on promoting and assisting businesses to open and grow in the 1st Ward. I would argue that a company with such overtly bigoted beliefs is bad for business and jobs in the 1st Ward, not the reverse.

I represent a diverse, forward-thinking community, and I'm sure the majority of 1st Warders find Cathy's comments and attitude repugnant. Even if I did give Chick-fil-A the go-ahead, I suspect many in my community wouldn't spend their dollars there.

I know my decision may anger or annoy some people. It's just a chicken place, they will say. But I believe Chick-fil-A should really reconsider its platform on gay issues. Equality for LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) people is the civil rights issue of our generation. This decision is me taking a stand.

It is quite clear that what bothers Moreno goes far beyond SSM. That it is their donations to numerous homophobic groups which he finds particularly odious. And I can hardly blame him. Can you?

I am pro gay marriage, and I personally will not spend any money at Chick-fil-a. My disagreement is only with the city officials using arbitrary rules to keep development out, not with gay marriage.

Well, good for you. But this isn't "arbitrary" in the least. Again, city councilmen and aldermen make these sorts of decisions all the time regarding businesses they think would be detrimental to a particular area. And again, that even includes blocking Walmarts as well as bars, liquor stores, sex establishments, and the like.

Moreno apparently has the political power to block it by denying Home Depot's attempt to subdivide the land. If you don't like it, move into his district and vote against him when he runs for re-election.

I have no idea what a "Hobby Lobby" is, but they have obviously been getting flack in other areas for their wacky outspoken attitudes as well:

FRC: In Hobby Lobby, Liberals Hone Their Craft

t looks like the owners of Hobby Lobby are dealing with another lobby–the liberal folks of Northfield, Massachusetts. When the craft chain bought an empty campus in the area with the intentions of donating the 217 acres to a Christian school, the town erupted. “We don’t want it to go to a place that is not open-minded, not willing to listen to the views of others,” said resident John Howley, an obvious slap at the Green family’s conservative biblical worldview.

Concerned the property would be gifted to Liberty University, townspeople started circulating a petition calling the school “an extremist, homophobic, and intellectually narrow institution.” Several other colleges are in the running for the land, and the Green family, which has donated millions to Christian education, hasn’t decided who the fortunate recipient will be. Regardless, even Northfield’s leaders acknowledge that it “does not have the ability to control the way in which Hobby Lobby transfers its property.”

One of the most confusing parts of the debate is Northfield’s insistence that the new school honor the property’s first tenant, evangelist D.L. Moody. But like Liberty University, Moody believed the Bible was the authority on all things–including sexuality. I suppose if Massachusetts can redefine marriage, then it can rewrite someone’s biography too.

Meanwhile, the controversy does highlight some of the fallout of redefining marriage, which Massachusetts was the first to do. People wonder about the impact of same-sex “marriage” on education. Well, this is it. States are using these laws as an excuse to elbow out faith–and even charity! They become intolerant, anti-Christian strongholds that wall off cities and schools from honest and open debate. This is no longer a matter of privacy or personal choice. When same-sex couples claim their relationships won’t affect you, they’re wrong. They absolutely affect you–from your ability to speak freely to your ability to learn and worship freely.

Perhaps Moreno might very well decide to deny them variances if they ever decide to expand.

That I do not know, although the other Chicago location apparently employs gays, and there hasn't been anything reported to the city about discrimination.

Didn't you read in this thread that the "other Chicago location" is a franchise which is not owned by the homophobes? So that is completely irrelevant to this issue.

I was asking if you had heard if Chick-Fil-A had responded to Moreno's email requesting details of their hiring practices regarding gays or not.

 

[cardgame]

If you are insinuating that their charitable giving to things like housing for homeless children, scholarships or foundations to help with childrens healthcare comes with strings attached, feel free to provide evidence of that; because in looking it up I dont see it.

In this case, the obvious strings are the funds given to organizations such as the one that runs those "ex-gay therapy camps" among other similar operations. I'm sure if someone is willing to dig, they can find more literal examples, like the Salvation Army trashing Harry Potter books instead of just refusing to accept them.

 

[MobBoss]

In this case, the obvious strings are the funds given to organizations such as the one that runs those "ex-gay therapy camps" among other similar operations. I'm sure if someone is willing to dig, they can find more literal examples, like the Salvation Army trashing Harry Potter books instead of just refusing to accept them.

Those arent really the kind of strings I was referring to.

 

[cardgame]

The second one is. They're controlling the reading material they supply to those who want/need literature and therefore controlling at least a segment of society based on their Christian morals (witchcraft bad!)

 

[Formaldehyde]

Boycott Chick Fil A? You're doing it wrong!
http://twitchy.com/2012/07/27/chick...wrong-reports-photos-show-it-is-a-total-fail/

Did you feel the same way when many ultraconservatives were trying so hard to stop the "Ground Zero Mosque" and various Muslim facilities in other states from being built?

How about their similar boycotts of "liberal" businesses?

 

[JollyRoger]

Yep - there were what - 4 full threads advocating zoning out the so-called Ground Zero Mosque, with many of those advocates shedding tears over Chick-Fil-A here.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That is completely different. One issue was over religious zealots trying spread their fanaticism where it was not wanted. And the other was over a mosque.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't think that the state should be in the business to regulating marriages at all, so gay marriage is kind of a non-issue for me and I consider the campaigns on both sides to be wastes of resources.

I also oppose zoning laws on principle. Zoning laws used to curtain the free exercise of religion are particularly heinous.

I definitely do not think that politicians should be able to manipulate zoning laws to prohibit the spread of businesses due to their leader's religious beliefs or political affiliations.


I have noting against individuals boycotting a company based on politics, but using political power against them due to political disagreements is very different.

I would like to see a more democratic system fof corporate organization where shareholder votes are a prerequisite for any political donations.


I tend to think that the attacks of Chick-Fil-A will backfire. Conservative Evangelicals seem pretty keen on overreacting to perceived persecution. People at church today were making a big deal about it, and most of them seemed to be on-board with Huckabee's idea of all going to eat at Chick-Fil-A this Wednesday to show their support. My father intends to take us to join them. I think the whole issue is pretty silly but won't say no to free food.

 

[Hygro]

It is your opinion that it is bigoted, I disagree, and most people in the world do as well.

If Martin Luther King Jr. was still alive I have a feeling he'd oppose SSM, then you would have to call him a bigot.

No, he wouldn't. And it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'd like to point out to everyone planning on boycotting Chick-Fil-A and hoping to see its expansion blocked that Mr. Cathy won't really care. Regardless whether or not you spend your money elsewhere or ban it from your city, he'll still be wealthy and it won't have a signifigant impact on Chick-Fil-A's bottom line.

Already mentioned that the objective isn't to bankrupt Chick-Fil-A. Don't care if it impacts the bottom line.

Worst case, you cause the local store to shut down or stop new ones from opening. That hurts the people who work there more than it hurts corporate Chich-Fil-A.

As a member of the class of folks that work at local restaurant chains, I can safely say this is no skin off of anyone's scrotum. There will be increased traffic at competing chains and there will be job openings there.

It just adds more people to the unemployment line. So in your efforts to hurt Chikc-Fil-A, realize you're risking hurting your own community even more.

Not really. Chick-Fil-A donating money to hurt the gay community hurts the community. I'm just, in turn, demonstrating that I will not participate in their hurting of the community.

 

[classical_hero]

I am pro gay marriage, and I personally will not spend any money at Chick-fil-a. My disagreement is only with the city officials using arbitrary rules to keep development out, not with gay marriage.

Why are you like that when Jesus clearly describes what a marriage is according to Mark 10:1-10?