Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by CELTICEMPIRE, Jul 26, 2012.
One requires a state charter.
Even more? Really? I'm not familiar with your posts Tofu. Can I infer from this that you don't support SSM? You say that you've never boycotted a business before. Can I infer that you've never been discriminated against?
Regardless of your views on gay rights, I'm sure you're an intelligent person and can appreciate that gays don't want to give money to a company that will, in turn, use profits to fund laws persecuting them. Would you want to give money to a person who hires thugs to beat you up? Who wants to fund their own suffering??
I'm sure you can also follow that people who aren't gay but think gays deserve equal rights also don't want their money being used to hurt gays. This applies to all sorts of issues. Many Christians are currently complaining in the US about how their tax dollars might be used to fund abortions... something they object to.
Everybody has causes and issues they don't want to support, and don't want any portion of their money being used to fund such activities. Do you really not see the existence of bigger issues at stake here than a few jobs?
Or is it that you just don't care about this particular issue?
I've been making fun of Repubs a lot for there Oreos bit (and buying them, what is making me so fat). So your right, i should be making fun of the dems too.
I think he's pointing out that Chic-Fil-A supports a lot of charities that help out communities.
I often wish it could be another way, but the Christian tendency to be charitable often comes with the hidden cost of the Christian tendency to seek control over society.
You take the good with the bad I guess and I certainly don't want to belittle the very real charity work done by many Christians. Doesn't change my stance on Chick-fil-A in this case, though.
I live like, 4 blocks from the site. Moreno isn't my alderman (if you look at the map, you can see how gerrymandered everything is), but I can throw a football from my front step into his area...its where I spend most of my time. I've lived in this neighborhood for 2 years now, and I know that
1) there are several "conservative" businesses which operate without controversy in the neighborhood, including a Wal-Mart (whose history of discrimination puts Chick-Fil-A's to shame), and a Hobby Lobby. Ironically, the Hobby Lobby is RIGHT next to the proposed chicken location. If Moreno wants to have a no-SSM opposition rule, it is laughably enforced.
2) This shopping area has seen recent development, but preventing another tenet because of traffic seems weird, especially since there are two vacant buildings that the city is aggressively trying to filbig box type stores that went under). Saying a fast food joint would bring in too much traffic, while trying to lure an Old Navy next door isn't consistent. The city could always ask Chick-Fil-A to help build an outlet road, something other businesses in this neighborhood have done before.
3) Given Moreno's public comments, and the two Tribune articles in this thread, it is more than reasonable to conclude that Moreno's chief motivation is based on SSM, rather than traffic.
I am pro gay marriage, and I personally will not spend any money at Chick-fil-a. My disagreement is only with the city officials using arbitrary rules to keep development out, not with gay marriage.
That I do not know, although the other Chicago location apparently employs gays, and there hasn't been anything reported to the city about discrimination.
If you are insinuating that their charitable giving to things like housing for homeless children, scholarships or foundations to help with childrens healthcare comes with strings attached, feel free to provide evidence of that; because in looking it up I dont see it.
Good thing there is absolutely no room for interpretation on what is bigoted and hateful! Otherwise a public official could abuse these terms and use them against anyone who disagrees with their politics or "shares different values" or whatever.
Boycott Chick Fil A? You're doing it wrong!
Only as I keep mentioning and you keep ignoring, this is obviously far more than SSM. Although that certainly has much to do with it...
Here is Moreno's own statement in the matter:
Why I won't let Chick-fil-A in my ward
It is quite clear that what bothers Moreno goes far beyond SSM. That it is their donations to numerous homophobic groups which he finds particularly odious. And I can hardly blame him. Can you?
Well, good for you. But this isn't "arbitrary" in the least. Again, city councilmen and aldermen make these sorts of decisions all the time regarding businesses they think would be detrimental to a particular area. And again, that even includes blocking Walmarts as well as bars, liquor stores, sex establishments, and the like.
Moreno apparently has the political power to block it by denying Home Depot's attempt to subdivide the land. If you don't like it, move into his district and vote against him when he runs for re-election.
I have no idea what a "Hobby Lobby" is, but they have obviously been getting flack in other areas for their wacky outspoken attitudes as well:
FRC: In Hobby Lobby, Liberals Hone Their Craft
Perhaps Moreno might very well decide to deny them variances if they ever decide to expand.
Didn't you read in this thread that the "other Chicago location" is a franchise which is not owned by the homophobes? So that is completely irrelevant to this issue.
I was asking if you had heard if Chick-Fil-A had responded to Moreno's email requesting details of their hiring practices regarding gays or not.
In this case, the obvious strings are the funds given to organizations such as the one that runs those "ex-gay therapy camps" among other similar operations. I'm sure if someone is willing to dig, they can find more literal examples, like the Salvation Army trashing Harry Potter books instead of just refusing to accept them.
Those arent really the kind of strings I was referring to.
The second one is. They're controlling the reading material they supply to those who want/need literature and therefore controlling at least a segment of society based on their Christian morals (witchcraft bad!)
Did you feel the same way when many ultraconservatives were trying so hard to stop the "Ground Zero Mosque" and various Muslim facilities in other states from being built?
How about their similar boycotts of "liberal" businesses?
Yep - there were what - 4 full threads advocating zoning out the so-called Ground Zero Mosque, with many of those advocates shedding tears over Chick-Fil-A here.
That is completely different. One issue was over religious zealots trying spread their fanaticism where it was not wanted. And the other was over a mosque.
I don't think that the state should be in the business to regulating marriages at all, so gay marriage is kind of a non-issue for me and I consider the campaigns on both sides to be wastes of resources.
I also oppose zoning laws on principle. Zoning laws used to curtain the free exercise of religion are particularly heinous.
I definitely do not think that politicians should be able to manipulate zoning laws to prohibit the spread of businesses due to their leader's religious beliefs or political affiliations.
I have noting against individuals boycotting a company based on politics, but using political power against them due to political disagreements is very different.
I would like to see a more democratic system fof corporate organization where shareholder votes are a prerequisite for any political donations.
I tend to think that the attacks of Chick-Fil-A will backfire. Conservative Evangelicals seem pretty keen on overreacting to perceived persecution. People at church today were making a big deal about it, and most of them seemed to be on-board with Huckabee's idea of all going to eat at Chick-Fil-A this Wednesday to show their support. My father intends to take us to join them. I think the whole issue is pretty silly but won't say no to free food.
No, he wouldn't. And it doesn't matter anyway.
Already mentioned that the objective isn't to bankrupt Chick-Fil-A. Don't care if it impacts the bottom line.
As a member of the class of folks that work at local restaurant chains, I can safely say this is no skin off of anyone's scrotum. There will be increased traffic at competing chains and there will be job openings there.
Not really. Chick-Fil-A donating money to hurt the gay community hurts the community. I'm just, in turn, demonstrating that I will not participate in their hurting of the community.
Why are you like that when Jesus clearly describes what a marriage is according to Mark 10:1-10?
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