Mayor problems for team Roadkill

[Killroyan]

So here we are. I guess we are not in Kansas anymore, again...... What the hell happened here. The world has come to an end and we are facing a nuclear winter. Snow everywhere. What happened?????

Ah books and history, lets see and read: In the late 21st century everybody got so "smart" that they thought that they didn't need leaders anymore. That led to total anarchy and before you know it, one of the "smart"a..es pushed the big red button of doom and we got some screenshots that could easily fit into an obsolete play. NUKES EVERYWHERE

The people who survived decided that this could never happen again. Every city should get a leader. A wise man. A great person. Who would advice the people and help them. One rule to bind them all. And so it was written.

Back to the game. In this game we can only build or conquer a new city if we have a great person for it to settle. We start with a settler, a great spy and a great scientist. That is a big boost but we cannot build anymore cities untill the next great person. So the general rules are:

1) We can only build or conquer a new city if it gets a mayor aka GP (this means settling one directly after it is build or the conquered city must have got 1 GP settled). Spying will be important.
2) We cannot raze any city.
3) We can have vasals
4) All GP's must be settled
5) Only way to win is domination (although all other victory option are open for the AI)

Our settings:


And our starting position:

Our dedicated leader is Suleiman who is Philosophical and Imperialistic. I choose this leader for the faster GP production and the faster GG production.

We might want to focus on certain techs that give GP like music, economics, physics, fascism and communism during the game. And we need a good GP farm.

I have a bit of foresight on the first turns since I worldbuild this. So I will keep out of the initial starting stuff.

Participants are team Roadkill: Yatta, Creedakota and me for sure. If anybody else wants to join a silly game of fun and learning without going to spreadsheets etc... leave a message here and you might get an invitation

View attachment Mayor Roadkill BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave

Cheers and lets have fun. Roy.

 

[yatta77]

1) We can only build or conquer a new city if it gets a mayor aka GP
...
5) Only way to win is domination (although all other victory option are open for the AI)

Let me understand: sacrifice one GP settled per city, Emperor level, and we MUST win by domination. Oh boy, this one will be the tougher challenge I faced so far!

Few points:

1. How many GP we think we can have in a game? 16, 17, 20, few more including GG?
So Domination with our cities is simply impossible I guess on a standard size map. We need to leverage Vassals the most, but at the same time hope they don't grow too big and get out of our control. I don't even know if mathematically possible!(?)

2. We can't Raze, this mean we have to target the cities we want leaving to the AIs the others, and so have a bunch of foreign culture troubles in our cities. Btw, what if we flip a foreign city with our culture, do we need top settle a GP there? And what if we capture a city with already a GP settled there?

So, now I ask: Sure about only Domination being allowed? Sure about no city razing? One would already be a limitation, both seems a bit too much considering the GP restriction already there. However, your game, your rules, and you are my hero.

So I'm in, let's try it and have fun! What I'm supposed to do next?

Who is up for the opening? You know guys I lack competences here, I consider settler >> barracks a strong opening, LOL...

- yatta

 

[r_rolo1]

lurker's comment: 's advocate: No one said that you can't flip or ask nicely ( aka ) for cities to the AI The last one might be complicated to get without the cities capture war success, but it can be done ( got a lot of those in RR13 , where we also couldn't capture cities )

Anyway, good luck

P.S

or the conquered city must have got 1 GP settled

I see what you did here This means that from a certain point on, enemy caps are for free

 

[yatta77]

Ehm... sure sure that razing cities and winning by conquest it is not allowed?

 

[yatta77]

lurker's comment: 's advocate: No one said that you can't flip or ask nicely ( aka ) for cities to the AI The last one might be complicated to get without the cities capture war success, but it can be done ( got a lot of those in RR13 , where we also couldn't capture cities )

Anyway, good luck

Yeah right! Good point, thanks!
Killroyan, can we ask cities in tribute without a GP settled? Or we can only ask cities in tribute if a GP is settled there?

- yatta

 

[r_rolo1]

BTW, just for more devil advocate stuff, there is also the AP assign city vote

 

[yatta77]

@Rolo: can you join us at least as opening advisor?

@Killroyan: can we capture a city without a GP settled and gift it to a vassal the same turn?

 

[r_rolo1]

As a advisor ? Surely ... On the team ? Sorry, but I'm a little time constricted ATM

 

[yatta77]

As a advisor ? Surely ... On the team ? Sorry, but I'm a little time constricted ATM

An advisor would be just fine!

Besides leveraging the Vassals, can you see other ways to get closer towards a Domination victory? It is mathematically possible in your opinion?

I believe that overall the restriction aren't too bad, even sacrificing your GPs and expanding lowly is doable by conquest or any other condition, the victory condition locked to domination and the raze not allowed is what I fear would make this game kind of nearly impossible...

I hope I'm wrong

- yatta

 

[LKendter]

Sign me up.

We will need to do a loose build.
A lot of wars as those great generals will add up.

Is a wonder that helps with getting GG? I think there is an early one - we really need that.

 

[r_rolo1]

GW - boosts by 100% GG points if the fight happens inside your borders.

 

[yatta77]

Ok, I checked and thought a bit more.

With stone and lots of forest a possible plan might be build, likely by turn 65-80, both GW (for more GGs) and Mids (the early GS settled would generate 9/turn under Rep, and maybe we will also likely run lots of specialists to leverage the Phi trait).

Then beeline horseback riding, if you guys are fine with another HA (maybe chariots too) war. If not choose the type of units you like, I'm fine playing whatever you wish. I guess we will need early wars to produce GGs. We likely need also writing quite early to be able to settle more GS cities ASAP maybe.

I still believe an Immortal game without so many restrictions is easier, and I still wonder on how to reach the land % required for domination; but if mathematically possible, this game might be easily doable, the restriction aren't too bad taken one by one, and after all it still Emperor, and we would hardly fail an Emperor game... it will probably just take many turns to accomplish.

However, it is going to be fun to try!

Now moving from what the last 50 turns will be which is what I'm kind of good to think about, to what the first 10 turns will be, which is what I lack, where do we wish to settle? Worker first?

Cheers!

- yatta

 

[yatta77]

Sign me up.

We will need to do a loose build.
A lot of wars as those great generals will add up.

Is a wonder that helps with getting GG? I think there is an early one - we really need that.

If (as I believe) Killroyan is fine with it, WELCOME!

Just remember that you sign up at your own risk! We have a freedom approach philosophy, which means that we have a generic long term plan, and share each-other our opinions on possible strategies and moves between turnset, but everyone is allowed in its turnset to interpret the game and play it its own way, its own style... and nobody will ever get blamed for that!

Cheers!
- yatta

 

[CreeDakota]

So every city needs a GPerson. No exceptions.

Looking at this makes me think espionage. Since we need to see AI cities before we war anyway an Espionage economy makes sense. Add the fact that we start with a Great Spy and stone in BFC and we should be able to get the Great Wall for another great spy.

If we manage to nail the Mids (which I find likely). Then settled great spys will let us self tech ok too.

Can we ditch the requirement to Settle Every Great person? The rules allready encourage that so much that I think we should give ourselves the flexiblity to bulb, academy, scotland yard, shrine, and instabuild wonders if we need it. After all we have to give up a city to do any of that!

Trying to get Domination means we will want spread out cities that cover alot of land with high culture and high happy/health caps. Alot of vertical growth.

 

[CreeDakota]

I think we will want to war alot in this game...DEFENSIVE WAR!

With Defensive war we will rack up Great General points the fastest. For that we dont need HA but rather a neighor like monty and longbows!

Welcome Lkendter!

 

[yatta77]

^^__ Welcome CreeDakota!
As always, excellent analysis. I agree with about everything. Instant bulb a tech is something I would avoid anyways, instant finish a wonder maybe we should be allowed, for example the Great Library in a quick turn would output 8+100% = 16GPP/turn extra (24GPP/turn after NE).
Well, Killroyan I guess will have the last word on that, it is its game so its rules after all.
- yatta

 

[yatta77]

I think we will want to war alot in this game...DEFENSIVE WAR!

With Defensive war we will rack up Great General points the fastest. For that we dont need HA but rather a neighor like monty and longbows!

Uhm... like an AW game! I like it!

- yatta

 

[yatta77]

@CreeDakota
You have a solid point underlining that we want to fight most of battle inside our cultural borders, however remember that AFAIK attacking you get 2x EXP points.

This means that if winning a 50% chance defensive battle you get x Exp, winning a 50% chance battle attacking you get 2x EXP (4x inside your borders with GW).

So I kind of disagree with the many longbows idea, I'm fine with few of them every stack just in case we get attacked, but the majority of our units IMO should be offensive units.

Then, if you guys prefer Siege+Malee; Mounted Units; or any combination of those, it is up to you, but IMO I believe that the best would be win the majority of the battles inside our cultural borders, but also making sure to destroy the majority of the enemy units attacking them.

Just the way I would do it, I might have overlooked something in this calculation and be wrong. However I'm pretty sure about the 2x EXP if attacking compared to defending.

- yatta

 

[CreeDakota]

I get your point about still atacking the unit even if we are on the 'defense' territory wise. Flanking thier seige can mean alot to wining those contests.

But defensive wars all about getting way ahead on the number of hammers lost to kill the enemy. Sure its better to attack instead of defend if the odds are even both ways but the reality is that a fortified Longbow will have way better odds than the attacking HA the vast majority of the time.

 

[pholkhero]

i think i'd like to be in on this game. the variant is just too crazy to pass up.

might i suggest, though, keeping the requirement to settle all GPs...it seems so much more in the flavor of the game.