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Mechanics: Commerce, Science, Research

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Padmewan, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

    Oct 6, 2006
    New York City
    Let me take a crack at it

    Commerce, produced by your city, period. It comes from worked tiles (resources/coast/cottages) and trade routes (which get their own modifiers to COMEERCE, such as custome houses or harbors). THe exception is the Palace which gives 8 commerce. Also Burecracy increases commerce from the capital by 50% BEFORE any modifiers. So working 10 tiles for 30 commerce with 2 trade routes of 6 commerce each and Bureacracy plus the palace gets you 75 commerce ((30 + 12 + 8)*50%)

    So bulk 75 commerce from the capital. DO NOT consider shrines/specialists nor modifier buildings.

    SLIDER: is your versatility option for the game. You can divy that commerce up between beakers (research/science/tech whatever you call it)/espionage/culture/gold.

    So a slider at
    10% espionage gets 7.5 eps
    20% culture gets gets's 15 culture
    30% goldgets 22.5 gold
    40% beakers gets 30 beakers

    NOW apply the building modifiers to the above case

    Jail: 8 eps base + 7.5 from slider * 50% = 23.25 FINAL eps
    Catherdral: 15 culture*50% - 22.5 culture
    market/grocer: 22.5 * 50% = 33.75 gold
    libaray/university: 30 * 50% = 45 beakers.

    To the above modifiers you add your shrine, specialist, wonders etc...

    Hope this helps
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Jan 26, 2008
    And spiral minaret!

    Not sure if there are any other wonders.
  3. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Deity

    Jun 13, 2006
    Monasteries becoming obsolete is a confusing thing. Here's what happens in BtS.

    a) you can no longer build new monasteries
    b) existing monasteries then
    1) lose the +10% research bonus
    2) lose the bonusses from AP, UoS, SM and Sistine Chapel
    3) can still train missionaries
    4) still produce the +2 culture

    Castles, stele and obelisk are similar when they become obsolete. They all continue to produce their basic cultural output but lose all their special abilities.

    Some wonders also become obsolete and they follow the same pattern. They continue to output culture and their GPPs but lose their special ability (e.g. Stonehenge, Chitchen Itza)
  4. kivanc

    kivanc King

    Aug 23, 2007
    1) Istanbul 2) Izmir (Turkey)
    ookey. just as i thought. then if cultural victory is enabled, it is right to build every type of monastery in all 3 of your leading cities. if your state has 5 different types of religion, you'd better build 5 monasteries in your "3 chosen" cities. build many temples in other cities. and build as many cathedrals as possible in 3 leading cities.

    if cultural victory is not enabled, just build 2-3 monasteries for each type of religion. this is to be able to train missionaries after optics&free religion. then you'd better try to build different type of monasteries in different cities. so that you can build different type of missionaries in 2 different cities at the same time. and you will do this only if you need a fast cultural border expansion of one city or if you lack happiness points in one city. except for these 2 reasons, you will stop building monasteries when you get near to optics.

    generally i try to build each type of monasteries to 2-3 cities. and when i have 2-3 monasteries for each religion, then i'm free to research optics.

    similar strategies also apply for monuments etc.
  5. Laurwin

    Laurwin Prince

    Jul 5, 2008
    doesnt this kinda mean that scientific method suxx big time :eek:

    I always kinda liked my technocratic society where my mysterious priests are practising their arcane magicks in isolated monasteries with discretion. :scan::borg:

    kinda reminds me of warhammer40k and all those cool techpriest engiseers and stuff...
  6. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

    Apr 20, 2007
    Dancing in the Dark
    Scientific method is crucial to reach techs such as Physics and Biology. Yes, it can cost you a bit of :science:, but you wont be able to utilize that :science: properly since you can basically reach a point where SciMeth is the only available tech.
  7. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Apr 3, 2004
    Commerce (with slider)->Gold+Science+Espionage+Culture

    Other things (Shrines/specialists, certain buildings)
    add DIRECTLY not using slider to that gold, science, espionage , OR culture

    the multipliers are then applied

    to the OP Science and Research are the same things.
  8. kivanc

    kivanc King

    Aug 23, 2007
    1) Istanbul 2) Izmir (Turkey)
    well, in civ4 technocratic society can be powerful as a scientific method.
    it depends on map type.

    for example; if you play with mayan empire, as you start with mysticism and mining, it will be good trying to found at least 4 religions. Because you start with great advantage.
    for many of leaders, in a continent with only 1-2 neighbours, then it is good to play as half cottage economy/half technocratic. if you found 3,4,5 religions yourself, just try to spread it to your neighbours
    in one of my games i found that i still have a plus gold (+15) even when i make tax slider 100% research. this wealthy situation was because of the gold coming from many shrines. i had 5 different religions of my own.
    but later i found that my commerce points were not so perfect. so i understood that i got late in building many cottages. and that was also because that my health points were very few. my continent was large but it had so few food resource types. so i couldn't chop down most of the forests.
    so i think even if you will play technocratic, you still have to build many many cottages if you want to be ahead of all AI's in tech.

    BUT! if you are playing in a terra or pangaea map with a difficulty of monarch or harder, and especially if you don't disable barbarians than your play style have to change much. that makes a very big difference.
    yesterday i started a shuffle-huge map, monarch difficulty,standart 11civ, default barbarians (not disabled)
    it was a shock for me. OK, i was ahead (score and tech) of all AI's that i met, so i should be successful. but i couldn't recognize my playstyle. i had to play so different than i used to play for years.
    barbarians kept coming all the time and they were always coming with the same units that i have. i captured 1 barbarian city and razed another. barbs also razed 1of my new cities and captured another, then i took it back. i was also in war with napoleon at the same time. the experience of my units was huge really. i noticed that, up to 200AD i was not able to build any buildings else than barracks, some granaries and some lighthouses. no libraries, no temples etc. i trained many units. that should not be the strategy for DARIUS but I had to do like that.
    Once, when i hit the F1 screen i saw that i had 9 cities. 4 training units, 1barracks,1 granary, 2worker,1settler. and that view was very weird for me. that was not my style and really got bored of fighting. but IMO i have to get used to play like that as well.

    So, when i reached 200AD, what i thought was i had to play with even a more aggressive type. i had to research in the iron working, metal casting,feudalism path before code of laws.

    barbarian raids were so many that, they sometimes pillaged my improvements, cottages as well! so playing with monarch, barbarians on a pangaea map changes all your strategy.

    IMO if a player wants to improve himself, he should play on a shuffle map with barbarians with a hard difficulty. in the beginning you get bored but you learn much
  9. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

    Apr 9, 2007
    Kansai, Japan
    When a building obsoletes, only its inherent culture and GPP abilities remain. Everything else if removed, along with the ability to build the building. With some exception, like monasteries, whose function of producing missionaries never obsolete.

    Steel and Obelisk are not exception.

    That said, you could perhaps have posted that in the question thread in the main Civ4 forum instead of digging a so old thread

    --edit: oops, did not see page 2, sorry :blush:

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