[NFP] Medieval Era Policy Elimination Thread

hhhhhh · Mar 18, 2021

This thread is moderator approved.

This time about the (regular) Medieval policy cards.

In this post, you will find more information on the elimination thread, so if you are looking for the policy list, do proceed to the next post.

I reckon that the considerations listed in the previous thread are just as relevant as earlier, so I would recommend thinking about the following questions before voting:

When/where in the Civics tree is the policy unlocked?
How frequently and for how long do you use the policy?
Is the policy an auto-include in your government or is it situational?
How long does the policy last before it becomes obsolete?
How good is the policy relative to its competition? (Military to Military, Economic to Economic, etc.)
Is the policy a universal solution or geared towards a specific victory type?

The rules are as usual:

Each post should contain one downvote (-3 points) and one upvote (+1 point).
Votes must have a corresponding explanation.
You may vote once every 24 hours.
When a Policy reaches 0 or fewer points it is eliminated and should be removed by the next poster.
No particular victory type or civilization is assumed.
Game and map settings are left at default, NFP games modes are disabled.
Continous up/downvoting of a given policy by the same user should be avoided.
Please do not add non-voting posts to the thread as they are subject to removal.

hhhhhh · Mar 18, 2021

To start, use this list:

Naval Infrastructure (20)
Navigation (20)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (20)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (20)
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (20)
Aesthetics (20)
Medina Quarter (20)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (20)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

As a reminder, here is what they do:

Naval Infrastructure - +100% Harbor district adjacency bonuses.
Navigation - +2 Great Admiral points per turn.
Feudal Contract - +50% Production towards Ancient, Classical, Medieval and Renaissance era melee, ranged and anti-cavalry units.
Serfdom - Newly trained Builders gain 2 extra build actions.
Retainers - +1 Amenity for cities with a garrisoned unit.
Professional Army - 50% Gold discount on all unit upgrades.
Retinues - 50% resource discount on all unit upgrades.
Trade Confederation - +1 Culture and +1 Science from international Trade Routes.
Merchant Confederation - +1 Gold from each of your city-state Envoys.
Aesthetics - +100% Theater Square district adjacency bonuses.
Medina Quarter - +2 Housing in all cities with at least 3 specialty districts.
Craftsmen - +100% Industrial Zone district adjacency bonuses.
Town Charters - +100% Commercial Hub district adjacency bonuses.
Traveling Merchants - +2 Great Merchant points per turn.
Chivalry - +50% Production toward Industrial era and earlier light and heavy cavalry units.
Gothic Architecture - +15% Production toward Ancient, Classical, Medieval and Renaissance era wonders.
Civil Prestige - Established Governors with at least 2 Promotions provide +1 Amenity and +2 Housing.

hhhhhh · Mar 18, 2021

Saved for results.

Serfdom (WINNER) Is the score (59) the highest among winners of elimination thread? This shows how unanimously powerful it is.
Professional Army (#156) One of the most important military policy of early-mid game, this saves you a lot of gold and allow a powerful push if you are at war.
Merchant Confederation (#144) Comes in handy as there aren't many useful diplomatic policy at this point and this gives some gold when you really need it.
Craftsmen (#136) Clearly people don't build enough IZ to make this top 3.
Retinues (#128) It's very important when Niter is online and you want to upgrade all kinds of units. Timing is very important for domination.
Naval Infrastructure (#122) Although it's on a leaf civic, it can be very powerful when you are in a Free Inquiry golden age, or later in the game have lots of shipyards.
Gothic Architecture (#112) There are some useful wonders where this card can be helpful, but it's not as essential as the best Medieval policies.
Chivalry (#103) Its dependence on the Divine Right civic make it hard to use. But if it's unlocked then one can use this to produce a cavalry army.
Retainers (#89) +1 amenity per city only when you have a unit. Can be useful when military policies are not that good and slots are abundant. But it's no longer the case.
Feudal Contract (#85) Many would prefer to build ancient unit and then use Professional Army to upgrade.
Trade Confederation (#75) +1 science and +1 culture at a time where people only have a few trade route is not that great. (But personally I still believe this can be of some use late game, when people have like 15 trade route and in democracy.)
Civil Prestige (#61) The governor restriction makes that it can at most benefit 2 cities by the time it is unlocked. Pretty useless.
Aesthetics (#58) People find it's hard to get Theatre Square adjacency. So it's only suitable for some civs that has something special about TS.
Medina Quarter (#43) 2 housing is too little and it's unlikely you will have many cities with 3 districts built.
Town Charters (#39) People say CH doesn't get many adjacency. For me it's that at this stage I don't have much CH to actually use this policy.
Traveling Merchants (#35) Great Merchants are not that bad but it's not worth using a wildcard slot for 2 Great Merchants Points.
Navigation (#21). 2 Great Admiral Points are just too trivial. If you need Great Admiral you will build harbors, if you don't 2 GAP won't get you anywhere.

hhhhhh · Mar 18, 2021

I will start:

Naval Infrastructure (20)
Navigation (20)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (21) Most useful medieval policy. This is why Feudalism is a key civic.
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (20)
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (20)
Aesthetics (20)
Medina Quarter (20)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17) Least useful Great Person Policy. Too late for the early GM and not so useful for a wild card slot.
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

EarendilTheMariner · Mar 18, 2021

I guess I'll join in for the first time as well:

Naval Infrastructure (20)
Navigation (17) Great Admirals are only useful in certain situations and for certain civs, but in general there are way better options for your wildcard slots.
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (22) Builders are extremely useful and important, and more actions is always better for them, I typically only switch this out once I get public works
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (20)
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (20)
Aesthetics (20)
Medina Quarter (20)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

Duke William of Normandy · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (20)
Navigation (14) (17-3)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (22)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (20)
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (21) (20+1)
Aesthetics (20)
Medina Quarter (20)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

Navigation: Hard to choose between this and Traveling Merchants. Overall, I'd rather get Great Merchants than Great Admirals as their bonuses generally apply better for peace times than the Great Admiral bonuses do.

Merchant Confederation: Give me that Gold! I generall try to focus on gettin Suzerainty on City-States, so this bonus is relevant to me always.

Mount Suribachi · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (20)
Navigation (14)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (22)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (21)
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (21)
Aesthetics (17)
Medina Quarter (20)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

Professional Army 21 (20+1): Serfdom, Merchant Confederation and this are my top 3. They've already been upvoted, so I'll pop one in here. Useful even if you're not going for a domination victory, for two reasons. 1) It helps you keep your army up to date, deterring the AI and helping you with barbs and exploration. 2) So many Eurekas and Inspirations rely on military units. This card helps you to trigger those boosts at a reasonable price.

Aesthetics 17 (20-3): I want to downvote Navigation, but I don't want to be accused of hate voting to eliminate it on p.1 so I'm voting for this instead. Don't think I've ever installed this card, even when going for a culture victory. Because, remember kids, a culture victory isn't a culture victory but a tourism victory and science is just as important as culture for that. And you don't get much culture from Theatre Square adjacency bonuses, you get it from what you put in your theatre squares.

TCBB · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (20)
Navigation (11) (14-3)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (23) (22+1)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (21)
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (21)
Aesthetics (17)
Medina Quarter (20)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

Navigation (11) (14-3) I genuinely didn’t know this card existed. Why, just why would you waste a wildcard slot for this?

Serfdom (23) (22+1) The undisputed king of policy cards. It’s no coincidence that the period when you start to snowball and overtake the AI coincidences exactly with when you get Serfdom online.

Archon_Wing · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (21) 20+1 An extraordinarily high power card, when involving shipyards or Free Inquiry. Granted I never use the later, but shipyards are boss. It may not be serfdom, but given the love harbors had in the previous thread, this card is its logical conclusion. (well, ok Economic Union, but for this era...)
Navigation (11)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (23)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (21)
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (21)
Aesthetics (17)
Medina Quarter (17) 20-3 Its predecessor card was kinda bad, but at least it could be temporarily used to boost upstart cities. This card requires at least 3 districts in a city, meaning cities that need housing the most can't get it, and developed cities already can handle their own housing. Plus with aqueducts and Feudalism farms coming up, housing is much less of an issue.

And of course with Rationalism and its cohort being kneecapped, big population is even less interesting than it was. As a result I basically never take this card even though I would occasionally hotswap its predecessor. To make it worse Medina Quarter obsoletes the former card, so it's arguably a negative card in many cases, thus making it even more useless than the GPP cards. And Civil Prestige is better if you want tall anyways (as well as Republican legacy). You'll never have space for this.
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

kryat · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (22) (21+1)
Navigation (11)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (23)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (21)
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (21)
Aesthetics (14) (17-3)
Medina Quarter (17)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

Naval Infrastructure - Doubling policy cards are always welcome. I wish this one came earlier, but this can be a fair boost to your gold. But most importantly, this makes shipyards twice as powerful.

Aesthetics - Voted on the wrong thing, but not changing my vote (that would be a headache for everyone). Still think this deserves a vote down. Though it’s easier to get higher TD adjacencies with entertainment overhauls, they are still notoriously low shade values to double. Additionally, what you’d really want for helping with a CV is some sort of multiplier for getting writers, musicians, artists, or a discount on naturalists and archaeologists.

thanks for the catch @Pietato

DogeEnricoDandolo · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (22)
Navigation (8) If you are a naval civ, you would build Harbors everywhere and will end up with way more Admirals than you will ever know what to do with them. And this card uses up a precious wildcard slot.
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (23)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (22) The number 1 reason why certain Domination civs with a strong Medieval UU is so freaking powerful. Last UU Elimination thread, the Jong ended up like top 6 or 7 or something? And that is definitely partly because it is unlocked at Mercenaries at the same time as this card.
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (21)
Aesthetics (14)
Medina Quarter (17)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

Fixed the scores for simultaneous posts of kryat and Archon Wing.

Leucarum · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (22)
Navigation (8)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (23)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (23)
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (21)
Aesthetics (14)
Medina Quarter (14)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

With the Medina quarter (17-3) The bonus housing is useful, but it does require jumping through a few hoops to get it and later on when you are going to maybe want to use it, you probably have more options rather than burning a policy slot. Professional Army (22+1) really is essential for keeping your millitay in shalr.

canadamufc · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (22)
Navigation (5) (8-3) In a coastal game, this card will mean nothing as you're still going to get Great Admirals faster than any other civ. Also, why would you ever put this in a Wildcard Slot when such slots are so precious and desired?
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (24) (23+1) In any game you play, you're gonna need builders. This will always get put no matter what as it makes each singular builder almost twice as powerful.
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (23)
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (21)
Aesthetics (14)
Medina Quarter (14)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20)

SammyKhalifa · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (22)
Navigation (5)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (24)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (23+1=24) I mean I'm no military oriented player but this might be one of the best money saving cards in the game.
Retinues (20)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (21)
Aesthetics (14)
Medina Quarter (14)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (20-3=17) Downvoting this because I want someone to explain to me that I'm doing something wrong and this doesn't suck after all.

bengalryan9 · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (22)
Navigation (2) (5-3) I agree with the previous poster - getting great admirals is pretty easy as is so I can't imagine why you would ever slot this card.
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (24)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (24)
Retinues (21) (20+1) Not as good or useful as professional army but I always seem to spawn without key strategic resources - this card will help you get out swordsmen, knights, and musketmen a lot easier/faster if you only have one source or have to resort to trading for strategic resources.
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (21)
Aesthetics (14)
Medina Quarter (14)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (17)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (17)

AntSou · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (22)
Navigation (2)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (24)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (24)
Retinues (21)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (22) 21+1
Aesthetics (14)
Medina Quarter (14)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (14) 17 - 3
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (17)

I agree with the sentiment on Navigation. I'll let someone else kill it.

Travelling Merchant should follow suit. All these GP cards need a rework.

Merchant Confederation - Generally generates enough gold that I don't need to worry about staying afloat, allows me to focus on other stuff.

Equilin · Mar 18, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (22)
Navigation (2)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (24)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (24)
Retinues (21)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (22)
Aesthetics (14)
Medina Quarter (11) (14-3) As noted by others, its bonuses kicks in when that city usually don't need it anymore, and it's a very high bar to reach.
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (14)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (18) (17+1) I want to upvote this card before it got butchered. I used it once and it's a great temporary housing boost (for district slot mostly, and i usually need that 3rd slot)

Pietato · Mar 18, 2021

kryat said:
Aesthetics - A couple extra great person points doesn’t make a difference

Not what Aesthetics does.

Naval Infrastructure (23) The most critical water card.
Navigation (2)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (24)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (24)
Retinues (21)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (22)
Aesthetics (14)
Medina Quarter (11)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (11) Will not help.
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (18)

Luxerne · Mar 19, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (23)
Navigation (2)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (24)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (25) - Critical for surviving the mid-game, while gold income is still somewhat low and you need to get all those units upgraded.
Retinues (21)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (22)
Aesthetics (11) - I've never had to use this. Great works provide plenty culture by this point.
Medina Quarter (11)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (20)
Traveling Merchants (11)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (18)

bbbt · Mar 19, 2021

Naval Infrastructure (24) 23+1 Higher adjacencies are a bit easier to get for harbors then commercial hubs, but as others have said, it's the shipyard that makes this a key policy card
Navigation (2)
Feudal Contract (20)
Serfdom (24)
Retainers (20)
Professional Army (25)
Retinues (21)
Trade Confederation (20)
Merchant Confederation (22)
Aesthetics (11)
Medina Quarter (11)
Craftsmen (20)
Town Charters (17) 20-3 With a few exceptions (Mali) Commercial Hub adjacencies are often on the weak side: +2, maybe +3
Traveling Merchants (11)
Chivalry (20)
Gothic Architecture (20)
Civil Prestige (18)

[NFP] Medieval Era Policy Elimination Thread

Prince

Prince

Prince

Prince

Chieftain

King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

Prince

Warlord

Vote for me or die

King

King

Emperor

Warlord

Deity

King

Deity

King

Platonic Perfection

Warlord

Deity

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