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Mediterranean Adventure

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Succession Games' started by vadalaz, Apr 30, 2021.

  1. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I will try not to vetch (much) about not have faith currency this game. Where I am sending the Settler?
     
  2. Nizef

    Nizef King

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    Corsica or Sardinia, I would assume.
     
  3. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Lol, my geography is not much above average for an American. But I successfully used Google and Wikipedia to translate. I like Sicily and and France better than either of those islands.
     
  4. Nizef

    Nizef King

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    The spot in the Corsican/Sardinian strait seems fantastic to me. Carthage will colonize Sicily soon and I am not sure we will be in time and it will be contested anyway. France is a nice second choice though. Maybe we go for both Corsica/Sardinia and France? I mean, after all we went Liberty.

    It would also safeguard Rome itself.
     
  5. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Ugh, my first tech choice was a loser (Drama and Poetry) since I mindlessly assumed the Civil Service beeline. So bad I almost replayed it, but I didn’t spot the mistake until half way through my turns. Sorry.

    T081 clear barb camp for Monaco; set tech tree for Civil Service, but that was a mistake, since we obviously need Iron Working first
    T082 trade OB w/ Isabella, might have been a mistake; workers building mine on Iron and Camps on Deer
    T083 Scarcher getting sacked by two barb Handaxe, so backs off; Warrior heading to Sardinian to level up, Trireme can provide cover
    T084 Drama and Poetry researched, start on Horseback Riding
    T085 sign OB w/ Enrico
    T086 sign OB w/ Theodora; Marble quarry finishes in Antium; upgrade Archer and Scarcher; start on Iron Working
    T087 Isabella and Maria have made peace
    T088 meet Suleiman
    T089 Cumae worker is out, who starts to build vineyard, and resumes Granary; Antium Settler out, send him W, and start on Granary; adopt Representation since we do not have our roads up
    T090 Warrior has had enough and starts to swim to Rome for his upgrade; Upgrade other Warrior; Start on Engineering

    @raider980 the Sicily barb camp has a settler on it, so that is one more free worker if you can get there fast enough!
    I agree with this!
     

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  6. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    Definitely Corsica with the unique lux. And yes, that southernmost hill tile will get the fish and wheat on Sardinia; as long as Dido doesn't settle it before our borders grow there. While it would be nice to get a second Mt. Kili, Sicily looks infested with barbs, including a swordsman. Plus, we can just take the Carthaginian city that will surely be built there. France looks nice too, no unique luxes though. But we should have enough total happiness to make it work.

    Of course at some point we need to start building military if we're going to stick with our plan of taking Venice (and Carthage).
     
  7. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    There is a Gold hill in the mountain pass between France and Spain. Pretty sure we do not have gold elsewhere? We will have to get there fast though. That is where I was going to send the Setter. Killy-buffed Legion (right there with the Settler) might be fast enough to block Isabella. NC done in four turns, so timing is good for an expansion phase. But the UU are unlocked now too. Very much the competing priorities!
     
  8. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    Woah, that is far away. When you said France I thought you meant the next river over with the wine and copper.

    I’m going to slow this down and not play tonight. We need to figure out a plan forward.
    • Should I start building military? Which military?
    • Where exactly the city in France? I hesitate to go that far. But if we do, which tile. Normally I would never build on Salt but a city on that Salt would get Salt, Gems, Gold and Wine. Edit. Or right on the Gold? Isabella is going to be mad but she’ll never get through a city on the Gold. It misses the Gems though.
    • When the NC is done I’m going to build a quick settler for Corsica/Sardinia. Seeing the whole isle of Sardinia, the best spot looks like the northernmost tile of Sardinia. It gets wheat, both Spices and Copper.
    • Edit. I’m going to go Engineering > Compass. I agree that Galleas will be a big help in conquering Venice and later Carthage.
    • Is giving open borders against our rule? We need Alex to have OB to spread his pantheon to us. We are not doing well with production.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  9. Nizef

    Nizef King

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    Here are some thoughts:
    - Maybe we should go for early Metal Casting to boost our production
    - I would assume us to build military units during Raider´s and my turns, we are late to the party and we might need medieval units to get Venice? On the other hand it is still only strength 19 so four Ballistas and a couple of Legions should do the trick even, if they purchase walls.
    - Buy the Crabs tile near Neapolis and construct a WB?
     
  10. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    EDIT to ask: What are we taking for Liberty finisher? I think we decided we can GE bulb wonders, but I can’t think of any coming up soon. No Bees dictates planting GS, so Liberty GS feels less important to me.
    Is it any further from Antium than Antium is from Rome? When I play Liberty, after NC, I like to pick my most distant expo targets, then fill in the gaps.
    That is an excellent spot, which I think we should also settle! If we can get a monopoly on Wine, the civs on eastern side of the map will trade us lux-for-lux for a while.
    Oh yeah Isabella will be mad! I was thinking two tiles from the Gold, on the river hill. But that might mean we need a unit to sit on the mountain pass. I should not have given her OB.
    Agreed, that is a great spot. I think Rome needs to pump out three settlers before helping with the war effort.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  11. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    My 2c:

    - Metal Casting first
    - CBs to Sicily to pick up the worker from the barb camp as soon as possible
    - OB with Alex to get his religion
    - Antium has low food and some very nice tiles to work, especially once it gets Stoneworks. I'd send a food caravan there from Rome once our trade route to Enrico expires. It's 11 tiles away so'd we need one road tile for that to work
    - Writers' Guild in Rome is an option here. It would boost our culture, and two CSs want a Great Writer
    - Perhaps delay Liberty finisher and get Exploration opener and +3 production in coastal expos? We have a ton of stuff to build - workshops, work boats, cargo ships, aqueducts, temples, universities, army and navy etc.
    - I think it's too late for Legions and Ballistas, everyone has Compass and surely they'll have Chivalry soon as well. We might have to wait until we get Frigates here
    - Not a fan of forward-settling Spain
     
  12. beetle

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    Agreed that we missed the window for Legions and Ballistas. Legions can help with road network though.
     
  13. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    Decisions, decisions. Lots of choices, differing ideas of the path forward. But had to make choices. Biggest one being where to settle the next city.

    I went back and looked at my last set of turns when we had a scout in Spain, and Isabella has a really big army. She is not top in Demographics now but I'll bet she's close. Plus, her army will have gotten experience fighting Portugal. For that reason, I decided not to settle a city near Spain. We would never be able to defend it. And even though we have a DoF with her, Isabella will backstab us in a heartbeat. She is going to get Tercios soon and we can't get troops over there fast enough, not that we have any troops really.

    And looking at the nearest river in France more closely, that is not really a good city spot I don't think. Not much food, only 2 Wine, 1 Copper, 1 Sheep and the rest mostly hills. Plus, we run up against the top of the map. So I headed the settler for Sardinia.

    T91. 600BC. Neopolis finishes a light house. Starts Work Boat > we now have Alex's religion. Asian scout meets Assyria, nothing good for trade, trade embassies. Alex won't trade open borders so I just gift him ours. I hope that's not against our rules, I figure the OB rule was about not taking advantage of the AI, in this case, Alex is taking advantage of us. (Not that it did any good, he hasn't sent any more missionaries our way.). Legion starts road in Monaco territory for quest.

    Interim. Nebby builds Norte Dame.

    T92. 575BC. Our lands are flooded with Venetian troops getting in the way of our workers. Trireme meets Caesarea (Milan), cultured, friendly, ally of Carthage, I PtP.

    Interim. Chichen Itza is built in a far away land. Ashurbanipal wants us to go to war against Suleiman, I decline. Theodora and Suleiman want our wine but have no luxes to trade.

    T93. 550BC. Discover Engineering, Metal Casting starts. Our friendship is almost up with Valencia (Quebec City). They do ahve a quest to give them gold but we don't have much. Rome finishes NC, starts Aqueduct, it will be done 1 turn before we grow. Cumae finishes Granary, starts Work Boat, its the only thing they can build in a decent amount of time. Trireme meets Askia, he has a city on the N. African coast.

    Interim. Machu Pichu built in a far away land. Enrico, Dido, Ahmad and Isabella want our Marble.

    T94. 525BC. Trade Marble for Salt with Isabella. She's the only one who had a lux for trade. Asian scout discovers King Solomon's Mine.

    Interim. Dido asks for DoF, I accept. Ahmad is glad we are friends with Carthage. Dido allies Monaco; better than Isabella but still not good.

    T95. 500BC. Antium finishes Granary, starts Stoneworks. Neopolis finishes Work Boat, starts another. Buy Crabs and send WB there.

    T96. 475BC. Legion starts another road in Monaco territory for quest. Legions are slower than workers to build roads.

    Interim. Discover Metal Casting. Greece added reformation belief.

    T97. 450BC. Rome finishes Aqueduct, starts Workshop. CB lands in Sicily; barb spear, sword, and handaxe are there.

    Interim. Alex completes Bourbodour.

    T98. 435BC. Carthaginian galleas' arrive near Sicily to help clear the barbs and unbeknownst to them help us capture their settler. Scout meets Darius, exchange embassies. He doens't have any luxes for trade.

    Interim. Theodora offers RA, I accept. Ankor Wat has been built in a far away land.

    T99. No one in Asia wants to trade OB. Neopolis finishes WB, starts Cargo Ship.

    Interim. Ashurbanipal DoW's Suleiman.

    T100. Arrg, CB bombards almost-dead Sword in the camp on Sicily but he does not die.

    Interim. Darius asks us to go to war against Suleiman, sorry. We discover Theology.

    • I didn't start building troops since we won't be using Legions/Balista to attack Venice. I was hoping Alex would spread his religion to us faster but he hasn't, so we are still low on production. I think going Exploration for coastal city hammers is a good idea. And later we can get happiness from lighthouses, etc.
    • Nizef, you'll get the settler on Sardinia eventually, but the hand axe just moved into the camp after Dido's Galleas' killed the Sword. There shouldn't be any other barbs on the island and I haven't seen any Carthaginian ground troops.
    • There is a ruin on the island off the coast of Valencia.
    • The Legion up north and the worker down south are pre-building roads for when we can do the quick finish the road trick.
     

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  14. beetle

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    I thought the suggestion was to settle both Corsica or Sardinia, which is why I sent the Settler west. But one city for the both islands is very good!

    I am okay giving up France to Isabella. Then the only additional expo I think we should try for is Sicily. We already have units there to clear the barb camp, so it should not be too hard to block Dido until we get a Settler there. But then I think the first cap we have to aim for is Carthage.
     
  15. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    Yea, I should have started a settler for Sicily. Maybe a quick settler after workshop is done. It should only take 3 ( maybe 2 with workshop) turns.
     
  16. Nizef

    Nizef King

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    Here we go:
    T101: Found Yerevan. The carthaginian Settler on Sicily will be ours in a few turns. Alex is sending a few Missionaries (at least 4)!
    T102: I was wrong, Alex came with 6 Missionaries... Started on a Water mill in Rome. Found Mt. Fuji (Ararat, I assume).
    T103: Cleared the barb camp on Sicily. Dido´s Settler is heading towards Sardinia or Corsica. DoF with Morocco.
    T104: Cleared the camp on Sardinia. Our sardinian city Ravenna is pop2. Currency was finished and I started on Civil Service. Reshuffled some tiles between Cumae and Neapolis to improve the production capacity of the former.
    T105: Our aquired Worker is heading for Sardinia and one of the CBs is heading back to the mainland. Lucia was recruited as a spy and I sent her to Babylon. I will bought my way to the Spices on Corsica because the carthagianian Settler went ashore there. Start on a Market in Rome.
    T106: As suggested, I open up Exploration as our next SP.
    T107: TR goes to Venice and Athens for max gold. Dido builds Himeji.
    T108: Dido starts a city on the plains Wheat on Corsica despite me buying the Spices! Started a Settler in Rome.
    T109: -
    T110: Renewed Whales/Wine trade with Morocco. Road between Rome and Cumae finally ready. Settler ready and is heading towards Sicily.
     

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  17. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    T111: Started Workshop in Cumae, Worker in Antium. Citrus <> Incense; Pearls + Marble + 5 Iron <> Silver. Changed research to Compass. Monastery in Cumae.
    T112: DoF with Spain
    T113: Started Workboat in Rome. Copper <> Ivory.
    T114: Started Aqueduct in Neapolis.
    T115: Started Water Mill in Antium. DoF with Byzantium.
    T116: Started another Workboat in Rome, Workshop in Ravenna. Settled Arretium on Sicily, started Workshop there. Met Florence. Exchanged embassies with Harun.
    T117: Finished Compass, resumed Education. Harun finished Forbidden Palace. Dido's upset we settled next to her, I tell her we won't do it again.
    T118: Neapolis: Workboat, Antium: Aqueduct, Rome: Cargo Ship. Ottoman spy steals... Trapping from Rome.
    T119: -
    T120: Cumae starts Aqueduct. Met Jerusalem, Tyre, Sidon and Mombasa. Finished Education, started Astronomy. Crabs <> Cotton.

    Notes:
    - We just got enough faith for the next Monastery
    - Lots of good options for the Cargo Ship that just spawned in Rome. My idea for it was to either send food to Neapolis or Cumae, or hammers to one of the new expos so they'd catch up quicker. Going for highest gold also makes sense if we want to build Galleasses and upgrade them to Frigates.
     

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  18. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    So 29 turns to Frigates (less because our science will increase). And then we begin the assault on Venice. Yes? I like that plan. Frigates are awesome and it won't be the same ole war with XB and Pikes. We won't even need XB. Our Frigates and Legion (or a single Caravel/Privateer) will be able to easily capture the city of Venice so that it can take its proper place in the Roman Empire. Then we can use them on Carthage and capture all those sweet wonders. Too bad there aren't more coastal capitals, we could go for a Dom Victory.
     
  19. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    T121 Rome starts on University, six turns; send Cargo Ship to Carthage, 16 gpt too sweet to pass up; sign OB w/ Venice and Carthage; Antium and Neapolis building Markets; Spy has 7 turns to steal, so switch to Guilds to make sure we have something decent to steal from Babylon; purchase Monastary in Rome (since it has Wine); gifted pike goes looking for barbs
    T122 start working one road quest from Monaco; cancel POP with CS where we are friends; sign OB w/ Alex and everyone else
    T123 Nebby wants to DOW Suleiman and Theo Ashurbanipal, but I decline; also decline RA requests; Samarkand wants horses, so I give PoP
    T124 close out Liberty for GE; Harun has build Sistine Chapel in Mecca; Cumae and Ravenna building Shrines (waiting on Rome, and there will be some overflow)
    T125 trade extra Pearls for Salt w/ Isabells
    T126 Isabella take Lisbon, Maria down to one city; discover GPR (Samsun), two WW left; Rome start on Harbor, other cities now building Universities
    T127 Alex wants to DOW Suleiman, which might have been good for us, but I decline; discover Krakatoa (Marsin), one WW left but half the map is still in fog
    T128 Babs only has Medieval techs, so I Steal Physics because it looked to me like Notre Dame was still available (but it was not); Florence (Cyrene) has a barb quest; Carthage settles Lilybaeum on the island south of Sicily (was Arretium); rent a horse from Isabelle
    T129 Astronomy done; start on Navigation but I let some beakers leak to Chivalry (because I was not watching for RA w/ Theodora); rename Ravenna Sardinia; Trireme coming home for upgrade
    T130 GA starts; trade for Gold from Ahmad for WLtKD in a couple cities, which is something I should have done eight turns ago; WC founded in interstitial

    @raider980 you have gold enough to buy a University if you like. Or you could ally a CS? Navigation in ten turns, so I think we will be building Frigates from scratch. It would be nice to have Barracks and Armories first! So much to do! GW and GE on deck.
     

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  20. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    Why is that worker way off in the middle of nowhere chopping a forest? Surely that's not going to give us any production that far away?

    Edit. Also, bulb the GW (can we do that per our rules?) or wait for somewhere to put it?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021

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