Mediterranean Adventure

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Succession Games' started by vadalaz, Apr 30, 2021.

  1. beetle

    beetle Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,309
    Location:
    Frederick, MD
    Forest 5 hexes away gives 3 hammers. Forest 4 hexes away gives 6.

    My understanding is that No Bulbs only applies to GS and GMu. So long as you wait for a good number of GA turns, I am all for burning the GW.
     
  2. raider980

    raider980 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    559
    I do want to finish my turns this session but I had to stop here because it looks like Dido is about to attack us.

    She asked us to go to war a couple of turns ago against Askia. Now she will DoW him for 13gpt. Or she will DoW Alex for 18gpt. Or 32gpt for both. The rest of the AI are very expensive. Our income is 78gpt (edit. this screenshot is from the beginning of the turn before I connected TRs) and we will discover Navigation in 3 turns.

    I think its worth it - and I'm thinking have her DoW Alex, he's more of a threat. What do you all think?

    Spoiler What are you doing Dido? :
    Carthaginian attack formation.jpg


    Spoiler Demographics - ouch, should've looked at this earlier :
    Demo.jpg
     
  3. beetle

    beetle Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,309
    Location:
    Frederick, MD
    No Bees: No war bribes. We could see if she will agree to DOW together. Yeah, maybe we should have accepted her offer to DOW Askia.

    Screen shot is scary! CB’s were blocking settling spots, but I think they need to be garrisoned in Sardinia and Rome.

    I think we resign or reload to accept her invite to DOW Askia. What turn was that?
     
  4. raider980

    raider980 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    559
    Oh no, I forgot, or didn't fully realize what no bribes meant. I totally should have accepted Dido's offer; in a normal game I almost never do but with the 3 B's we've got to. I can accept going back to that point, it was only a few turns ago.

    Its T137. I next turned and yea, we're dead. We also should have built up more military so as to not look weak. I did build a couple of Galleas and upgrad our Trireme but that's not going to help against Dido's fleet. She also has like 7 CS allies.

    I don't have time tonight but I'll go back and accept in the morning.

    Spoiler Dido declares war :
    Dido DoW.jpg


    Spoiler Sardinia is pounded :
    Sardinia.jpg


    Spoiler All our coastal cities are under attack :
    Civ5Screen0295.jpg
     
  5. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,321
    You can reload of course, but personally I'd prefer to try and defend here, and either lose the game or recover and punish Dido.

    Use the Engineer on something defensive if you have to, like a Frigate or a Castle. Chop the Deer forests in Rome for a bit of emergency production. Starve the cities if that shaves off a turn of production on something good. Try to get a couple of Privateers for a chance to steal some of Dido's ships. Build forts around Rome with those Legions. Sell units and buildings that aren't essential for survival here and buy things that are. Sell buildings in cities that are about to fall. Whatever it takes.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  6. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    915
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    I kind of agree with @vadalaz. It is no shame to loose this game. We are following strict rules and the start has been a little underwhelming overall. I don´t think it is very interesting to reload every time something goes wrong. I would even consider to give up one of the island cities for peace. After all, we are about to build a navy and prepare for a counterattack, taking back lost territory with intrest.
     
  7. raider980

    raider980 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    559
    Yeah, I'm up for continuing and seeing what we can do. I don't usually reload my games, mainly because I don't like playing the same turns over, so I start way more games than I finish and lose most of them lol.
     
  8. raider980

    raider980 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    559
    I'm glad we continued, that was a fun couple of turns. Much more interesting than going back. My commentary up to T137 was made without knowledge of the war to come. My first thought was, whoh, the map has changed a lot since my last round. And Rome is pop 17!

    T131. 400AD. Workers work. Lol, Dido has sent a settler to the Pyrenees, good that will make Isabella mad at Carthage. Maybe we can ally with Spain. Antium finishes something, starts Observatory. Our Legions remain in Venetian territory to keep the roads open.

    Interim. Ouch, Portugal has been wiped from the face of the earth. That is going to make everyone hate Spain, guess we don't want to ally with her. Morocco and Songhai make peace. Rome and Sicily want Silk.

    T132. Worker chopping has to run from barbs.

    T133. 450AD. Upgrade Trireme to Caravel. Rome builds Amphitheater, starts workboat. Sardinia builds lighthouse, starts workboat. HG Wells moves to amphitheater in Rome.

    T134. 475AD. Cumae finishes University, starts workboat. Neapolis finishes harbor, starts workboat. We need workboats for that sweet sweet production bonus from Alex's religion. Sicily finishes Workshop, starts Monument. Purchase Monastery in Sicily for Wine.

    Interim. Neapolis wants Marble, we have Marble? It was traded, will get it back in a few turns.

    T135. No silk has come up for trade but Suleiman will trade his single copy for 3 luxes, two of them are duplicates so I do it for WLtKD in Rome and Sicily. Rome finishes workboat, starts garden. Neapolis finishes workboat, starts Galleass. Sardinia finishes workboat, starts another. Uh oh, Venice has XB. Carthaginian troops getting in the way of our workers on Sardinia.

    Interim. Dido asks us to go to war against Askia, we decline. Theodora DoW Ashurbanipal. Nebby DoW Suleiman. WLtKD in Rome and Sicily.

    T136. 520AD. Cargo Ship to Venice is up. I assume we're going to war with Enrico soon, I send it to Rome to go to Caeseara for a quest. Antium to Athens cargo ship is up, move it to Rome to get a 27gpt TR to Marrakesh.

    Interim. Theodora completes Globe Theater. Enrico wants a DoF, sorry but no.

    T137. 540AD. Dido has many troops near Rome. Sicily finishes Monument, starts Library. Expecting to bribe her because I forgot about the rules, I continued the turn and sent two cargo ships to their doom although to be honest I think they would have been plundered no matter where their path. Dido has 7 CS allies.

    Interim. Dido DoW us. Egypt and Spain denounce Carthage, well that's good. Workers captured, many of our wonderful fishing boats are destroyed and all our cargo ships are plundered.

    T138. 560AD. Here's where the fun begins.
    • Antium finishes Observatory, rearrange tiles to get a Pikeman in 2 turns.
    • Rome finishes garden, walls in 2 turns and buys a Galleass. Legion starts fort near Rome. Worker near Rome to deer to chop.
    • Sicily switches to CB.
    • Sardinia sells workshop.
    • Sardinia fires on Carthaginian frigate to wound it.

    Interim. Sardinia falls. Alex DoW Suleiman. Isabella asks us to DoW Morocco, we decline; don't think Spain is a threat and we have several lux trades with Ahmad.

    T139. 580AD.
    • Can steal a tech from Babylon: Chivalry, Machinery or Steel. I pick Machinery. Move spy to Utinique.
    • Caravan is up, move to Antium for safe TR to Venice for 12gpt.
    • Worker near Rome starts chopping Deer.
    • Neapolis finishes Galleass, rearrange tiles to finish a legion in 2 turns.

    Interim. Our Golden Age ends. Monaco has a barb camp quest up near a city that I see Dido has built on the west coast of France. Assyria denounces Carthage. Morocco denounces Spain. Egypt replaces Carthage as ally of Cyrene (Florence). Our CB is killed while fleeing Sardinia.

    T140. 600AD. Make peace with Cyrene.
    • Rome: finishes walls, rearrange tiles to get Privateer in 4 tuns. Do not upgrade Galleass in Rome because he can kill a Caravel. Legions kill an invading CB.
    • Upgrade Galleass in Neapolis to Frigate..
    • Sell workshop in Sicily.

    Interim. Ahmad offers whales for wine, we accept; no one else wants our wine anyway, we have 4 excess. Harun builds Taj Mahal. Greece replaces Carthage as ally of Zurich. Bursa (Suleiman) captured by Babylon.

    At the end of T140, I thought we had gotten off lucky and Dido was more bark than bite. This doesn't look too bad.
    Spoiler Not looking too bad :
    T140.jpg


    After the interim I see I was way too optimistic.
    Spoiler Ouch, now it is. :
    T141.jpg


    I've left you a mess Nizef, but a fun mess I think!

    Notes:
    • I thought maybe Sicily had escaped but it will fall. I think there's only one more building in there to sell.
    • The Pikeman in France is chasing a Carthaginian Scout and that's where the barb camp quest is located.
    • We can make peace with Zurich (I forget what it is on the map).
    • We are in serious money trouble. I may should have sold some more buildings on T140 but at that point it looked like we might not need to.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 11, 2021
    vadalaz likes this.
  9. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    915
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Could you provide the saved file as well, @raider980 ?
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  10. raider980

    raider980 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    559
    Sorry! After all that typing I forgot the save file. I've attached it above.
     
  11. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    915
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Here we go:
    T141: Fighting continues outside Rome and Sicily. Killed one unit near Rome and upgraded the CB in Sicily. Started a couple of more XBs.
    T142: Better turn. Killed three land units and sunk two ships. Started a Cargoship in Neapolis. Renewed a lux trade with Babylon.
    T143: Plunder two of Didos Cargoships. Killed three land units and sunk two ships again. I can still see 16 carthaginian ships! Dido is ready for peace negotiations and peace is agreed. It looks like Dido´s attack was not based only on our expands but the combination of expands and DoF with Spain. I reshuffled many of the tiles to work.
    T144: Repair mode. Privateer in Rome ready and I start on a Cargoship. Workboat in Cumae. Dido managed a coup in Belgrade! I cleared a barb camp for Monaco, increasing our influence to 135. Sicily is up to pop5 and I will start on the WS next turn.
    T145: We are still loosing 22 gpt. It will get much better in two turns. We are also down to 3 happiness because our happiness from Samarkand has decayed.
    T146: Dido want us join a war effort against Spain, which wuld make us a backstabber. I gently decline her offer. TR ready and is sent to Constantinople for sweet 19 gpt. We are not loosing money anymore.
    T147: TR to Marrakech for sweet 26 gpt. Harun entered Industrial through Archeology!!! Our spy stole Banking.
    T148: Start on a Knight in Cumae, because we might need a land unit for capturing Venice. After all there are only four sea tiles for a maritime attack. Dido want Wine for Gems, I accept. Start researching Steel.
    T149: Sent TR to Rome with food. Spain goes to war against Morocco.
    T150: Sicily has one turn until the WS is done. Five more turns for the fourth Frigate. I think vadalaz will be able to start moving the ships towards Venice and maybe get to start the war.

    I must say that I believe that our worst crisis is over and there seems to be a glimmer of hope. Poor vadalaz, who has to compensate for all the bloopers the three of us have done in the last 30 turns... ;)
     

    Attached Files:

  12. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,321
    That's the white peace bug. If you press "What deal will end this conflict", Dido's actual offer is us giving her 4 cities.
     
  13. raider980

    raider980 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    559
    I was wondering why sometimes the AI accepts peace right when they're about to conquer a city. So technically, according to our rules we can't accept that I guess.
     
  14. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    915
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Crap. I didn´t think of that. Should I replay now or how should we proceed?
     
  15. raider980

    raider980 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    559
    I would be in favor of replaying. Edit That will really test us and give us a more realistic view of our rules.
     
  16. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,321
    Yeah, I'm in favor of replaying as well.
     
  17. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    915
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Okay. I will replay my turn. However, I have very little time today, but I hope to get it done tomorrow (thursday).
     
  18. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    915
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Here we go again:
    T141: Managed to kill two units this time.
    T142: Two kills. Renewed lux trade with Babylon.
    T143: Yeah, the peace deal would have included giving ALL expands to Dido. I decline. Killed six units including a Frigate near Sicily plus the barb camp that Monaco wanted us to destroy.
    T144: Another turn of six kills. Dido is out of melee ships outside Sicily. Bought Walls in Sicily.
    T145: Dang she had a Privateer in the shadows and took Sicily. Killed four units including a CS Caravel.
    T146: 3 kills but our Frigate will be killed next turn. Sent TR to Venice for gold.
    T147: Stole Banking. Killed 1 unit. No major offensive.
    T148: Offensive coming up in Neapolis. Killed one ship. Nebby was angry about our spy. I told him to p*ss off.
    T149: Killed 3 ships and took over one.
    T150: Killed 3 more ships and took over a Qinquereme. Steel will be done at the beginning of t151. Dido is the tech leader with 39 and we are at 34.

    I am not leaving much of an empire for you @vadalaz, but at least we are alive. The situation in Neapolis is severe. I am not sure if we can save this game, but at least it is the right man for the job taking over...
     

    Attached Files:

  19. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,321
    T151: Started Gunpowder, the spy will try to steal Economics. Reassigning tiles to finish units faster. Cities will starve and our science will suffer a bit. Changed production to Crossbow in Antium, bought Monastery there.

    I try the "Shall we declare war against..." thing in the diplo menu of some AIs, all refuse. We won't forget this.

    T152: Renewed OB with Venice, DoF with Morocco. I see a Carthagian Cargo Ship that I'll try to plunder next turn - that's a Frigate upgrade for us. Dido's building Red Fort it looks like.

    T153: Make that two Cargo ships to plunder. Wine <> Silver with Harun in the interim gives us ally status with Genoa (Tirana). Surely Alex will buy them back next turn, but that was still nice because the CS put a couple of attacks into one of Dido's Frigates.

    Things look fine, so I stop starving and just stagnate instead.

    T154: Dido pillages Neapolis-Venice TR. I recruit one of Dido's Frigates. World's Fair soon... I think I want production Cargo Ships here to try and win the thing. Dido's push into Neapolis seems to be over and we have enough ships to protect internal TRs now.

    T155: New SP: Rationalism opener. Dido enters Industrial era through Industrialization - she has 6 Coal immediately. Autocracy incoming? XB finished in Antium, started Stable for extra production for WF.

    A Great Writer is born. Can we save him for now in case we do win WF?

    T156: Dido has a lot of ships near Sicily. Spy steal next turn. I check Babylon and guess what Nebby's building on turn 156? A scout.
    I use the Great Engineer to build Ironworks in Rome. He's been sitting around for too long and it doesn't look like we're going to get any wonders any time soon.

    T157: Stole Economics from Babylon. Nothing left to steal from there, move to Carthage. Finished Gunpowder, started Chemistry.
    T158: We get an Admiral. I lose a Frigate, kill a Frigate and two Privateers in return; unlucky on all Privateer draws. Sent a production Cargo ship to Cumae.
    T159: Recruited one of Dido's Privateers. Trying to time things well for the start of World's Fair (assuming it passes).
    T160: Still much of the same - killing Dido's units, setting things up for the potential World's Fair.

    @beetle:

    - We can make peace with Byblos
    - Spy just arrived to Carthage and it's an incredibly slow 39 turn tech steal. Dido's plotting against Alexander, maybe share intrigue and try to ask him to declare on Dido? I've tried like 5 times already, but who knows.
    - Might be a good idea to try a coup or two with the spy. I suggest Florence - we're about to complete a Great General quest for them so it should be a high % coup. If we actually do win WF, another cultural CS ally would be very nice to have.
    - I think there's a wave of Carthagian ships coming from the southwest.
    - Two Cargo ships finish next turn. I meant them as hammer routes for a chance to win World's Fair. But it's up to you to decide if we even go for the WF win here, or just get the free policy from it, or ignore it altogether and keep building units to fend off Dido. Perhaps WF won't even get passed.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. beetle

    beetle Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,309
    Location:
    Frederick, MD
    I think if Sicily was founded one tile NE (so, our side of the channel) it would not have fallen. There might have been a barb camp there at the time, so maybe that was not an option?
    • T161 Tyre wants TR, so I give them PoP; make peace with Byblos; GS born which I plant; buy work boat for Pearls; delay Frigate in Rome to coincide with WF starting; I see fleet coming in from W, so I hold off engaging while tightening our formation; kill a couple embarked units; share intrigue w/ Alex, he still has no interest in war with Dido
    • T162 Theodora builds Porcelain Tower in Constantinople; put all cities on production focus and burn a couple Shrines for overflow trick; buy workboat in Neapolis for Crab; kill a couple ships, but no prizing; give PoP to Belgrade because they have a couple easy quests; sent two production cargo ships to Rome; Dido trying to land units on shore, so those are easy kills; renew DOF w/ Isabella
    • T163 loose a Frigate to a Caravel, not sure how that happened; I am reminded why I don’t like Quick Combat — I cannot track what is going on; World Fair starts; kill one Frigate, prize a Caravel, and kill 4/5 embarked units (including two gats and a Rifleman); Carthage adopts Order
    • T164 prize a Frigate, kill Frigate and Lancer; make peace w/ Vatican City
    • T165 kill a Frigate; WF at 26% and we have 523 hammers, so that is looking good to me
    • T166 decline DoF invite from Theodora; Ashurbanipal killed off, but I didn’t catch who did, and I am not finding Assur; Chemistry unlocked, start on Industrialization; buy Monastery in Neapolis so that is all the faith buildings until we get our cities back; kill Cannon and Knight which were trying to retreat
    • T167 Suleiman asks to DoW Nebuchadnezzar, then Nebby asks to DoW Sully (both declined); Caravan from Antium finishes, I move it to Rome because gpt is negative and I think WF is okay; Split fleet to start working on Carthago Nova while other half engages incoming ships
    • T168 Dido still thinks we should be giving up all our cities for peace; Prize a privateer; keep Theodora as WC host; send Caravan to Venice
    • T169 just-prized privateer dies, but I was expecting that; We win WF! (by just under 35 hammers, so pretty close); kill two Caravels; Frigates working Carthago Nova have to withdraw after a single hit; unlock policy in Rationalism
    • T170 Alex wants to DOW Suleiman (declined); lose scout down south to Knight that should not have LoS; fresh Frigate dies to Carthago Nova, even though it was stacked with GA; kill a Frigate, prize a Frigate; Rome builds Baracks; other cities building workboats
    • Interstitial: Friends with Belgrade, PoP can be cancelled next turn; Frigate prized last turn dies (as expected); Sidon ally changes, so peace is now available
    @raider980 war is going pretty well, but Frigates can now be one-shot-killed. It is going to be a slog! Plenty fun, but I would have preferred to control the timing. GPT is problem. GW on deck to burn, T179 I guess?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 13, 2021

Share This Page