Medium Term Strategy

[damnrunner]

Right now we have a thread on the 1st 19 turns - but I think we need some more long term discussion. Here goes.


The following are some upcoming big issues to discuss

1. When do we send out 1st settler overseas?
This is somewhat dependent on what land our upcoming WB scout finds, but barring an evil mapmaker I assume we will have decent locations. However, I doubt any location will rival the insane good land we have on the home island. I think we certainly want to build at least 1 other city on the home island before going abroad. I am torn though on whether we should put city 3 at home or overseas. Anyhow this question needs to be hashed out and discussed. Our home cities will have high early production, but getting out on the islands faster will allow us to fog bust further afield (losing a galley with a settler would be horrible) and ease further expansion.

The answer to this question is also relevant to when we tech sailing. If we want 3 cities 1st – we should probably tech roads or pottery 1st as it does not make much sense to tech sailing if we are not going to be ferrying over settlers.


2. Where do we build our home island cities?
We will have the whole island scouted soon and can make a great dot map to maximize resources. I am thinking we will end up with 4 cities. We could probably pack in 5 – but I think this would overly hamper later development and by the time we get to city 5 we should have plenty of options for settling on islands.


3. Do we go for any wonders – if so when and where?
I like the idea of building Stonehenge – but I don’t want to distract from early expansion. I think it could make sense as a chopped wonder in our 1st overseas city – though this might come too late. We could also try to chop it in our 2nd home island city – but that could decrease early expansion. I think this is the most important thing we need to eventually do some game testing on.

Some other wonders could also be useful – but they are less of a priority. Parthenon could be huge as the GP bonus could help us bulb to Astro 1st. Oracle is also always awesome – but as everyone will be competing for it I generally lean towards avoiding it.

 

[remake20]

I think we could chop our wonder by improving the deer and fur.

 

[damnrunner]

I think we could chop our wonder by improving the deer and fur.

Unless BTS is different from vanilla in this respect we should build camps on top of the forests. That way we keep the +1 production (and bonus health) from the forests for the whole game. If we chop it - we will have to do it with the woods near the 2nd sheep city.

 

[Norton I]

Good idea to have this thread. Some thoughts...

On city settlement:

There is big difference in the amount of resources needed for settling an island city or an overseas city. For a city on our island we basically only need a settler (because the barb threat is extremely low, and can be completely eliminated with one more spawn buster).

An overseas city on the other hand, needs not only a settler, but also a galley and some defense (there will already be barb units there + enhanced thread from other civs).

I think settling our second city on the island is a no-brainer. We simply can't wait for a galley and military units to be build. Plus, the second city will probably be a very good production site, which will power our further expansion.

For the third city we have to take a good look at the map. If there is a good spot on a landmass between us and another civ, we should race for it. Given our faster settler production we can win that race.

On our economy:
We have enough resources to fuel our early economy (silver etc.) but how will we ensure a solidly growing economy? There is not much room for cottages on the island... should we aim for a GP heavy economy?

On wonders:
Stonehenge is obviously nice, but I'm not sure about it's worth. We will probably be in an expansion race with other civs and building wonders would slow us down. I think we should try to use our IMP to the max... no delays. But of course, one can argue that stonehenge will also enhance the quick expansion. So... tough call.

 

[remake20]

Unless BTS is different from vanilla in this respect we should build camps on top of the forests. That way we keep the +1 production (and bonus health) from the forests for the whole game. If we chop it - we will have to do it with the woods near the 2nd sheep city.

No, building a camp destroys the forest. Well I'm 99% sure, everything else does.

 

[SilentConfusion]

No, building a camp destroys the forest. Well I'm 99% sure, everything else does.

And I'm almost positive that building a camp does not destroy the forest. I can test it real quick, but I'm pretty sure.

 

[wideyedwanderer]

I'm pretty sure building a camp does not destroy a forest. I think this may have been different in earlier versions of Civ 4.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Camps do not destroy forests or jungle. You might wish to clear the jungle for a better yield however.

1. When do we send out 1st settler overseas?

I'd say unless we see something godlike on another island we settle most of our spots ASAP. We have the commerce for it and doing that allows us to kick production up. Ultimately more production here means faster settling there...take the best sites.

3. Do we go for any wonders – if so when and where?

SH is a gamble for us, stone/marble like obsolete blathered on about or not. If they want it, they get it, they already have mysticism. We, however, still need fishing and mining at minimum before that. Not a good outlook, but I could be talked into supporting a shot for it.

Gwall could be very interesting. If there is a MAIN landmass where everyone is settling and we just start on these islands, it could be quite the lift to ignore barbs entirely by building it on the new land mass. We need to keep our eyes open.

Other early wonders are not viable for us, we lack the resources/trait distribution to justify them for the most part.

On our economy:
We have enough resources to fuel our early economy (silver etc.) but how will we ensure a solidly growing economy? There is not much room for cottages on the island... should we aim for a GP heavy economy?

It looks like we're going to leaning on food specials and specialists very heavily, yes. Currency + open borders with someone will help a whole hell of a lot also.

 

[remake20]

Camps do not destroy forests or jungle. You might wish to clear the jungle for a better yield however.

It doesn't?!?! I could swear that it chopped every time. All other improvements do.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Camps don't chop the forest or jungle. You have to chop seperately.

 

[remake20]

Okay. Sorry I thought they did.

 

[damnrunner]

We have pretty much scouted the island. Barring discovery of any hidden fish off the coast, which is unlikely, we can make a good dot map. Anyone want to start on that? I'll give a look later.

 

[remake20]

Dot map for what? Improvements? Cities?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

^ 2nd city is SE tip of the island as a PRIORITY. We have an ocean commerce tile 2SE of that tile, meaning with a border pop it might be possible to send work boats and trade in that direction.

 

[wideyedwanderer]

I think we definitely should get our second city on the south east portion of our island. The second city will be very important. We need it up quickly, and building a galley, warrior, and settler will take too long (not to mention researching sailing.) Plus, we have a very good spot for our second city right here on our home island.

 

[remake20]

that our second city should be on our island. Just too much time to get a galley, sailing, ect.

 

[fireflames]

All other improvements do.

Won't both forts and camps leave forests?

And we definitely want our second city to be on the island.

 

[remake20]

Sorry I may have been wrong about the improvements. And I think oracle is a good idea for a wonder. Maybe collosus too, so we can make up the deficit of us not being finacial.

 

[damnrunner]

And I think oracle is a good idea for a wonder. Maybe collosus too, so we can make up the deficit of us not being finacial.

They are good - but our focus should be expansion. If we run out of easily accessible islands then we may want to do more building - but I think we should focus our hammers into settlers. Our best means to overcome not having financial will be having way more cottages than everyone else.

 

[SilentConfusion]

They are good - but our focus should be expansion. If we run out of easily accessible islands then we may want to do more building - but I think we should focus our hammers into settlers. Our best means to overcome not having financial will be having way more cottages than everyone else.

I agree with this completely. With more cities than them we can rival their FIN economies with more cottages, but we will also have more production than them with more cities.

I think our focus should be on early growth and arranging diplomatic trading alliances with the other teams. Our traits lend themselves to getting lots of 7 pop cities up quickly and that's what we should be trying to do. The tech trading option lends itself to a very diplomatic game. I would not be unhappy if we didn't get a single early wonder. Stonehenge would be the wonder I'd prefer to get. Unless the Oracle and the Colossus go much later than I expect I don't see them fitting into our plans. I imagine a race for both of those wonders and if we sacrifice our early expansion to compete in that race and then lose it, the failure gold will not even come close to making up for the fact that we gave up our early growth advantage.