Well... almost. If it hadn't been for an oversight, the war would have taken a different turn. Thirty second summary: I am the Spanish (RNG picked Issy), playing Earth2 map, and I decided to play a new techique, and try and nab buddism. I got it, so I have the Buddhist Shrine (and Taoist, and Confusist, etc. etc.). Unfortunatly, I got stuck in Europe, which, in Earth 2, seems as if the developers decided to stick Europe in as an oversight, and covered it in plains, giving vast grasslands to everyone. Blah blah blah, random event kills the Aztecs, blah blah, Germany conquers almost all of Africa, blah blah, backstab the Persians to grab the Sahara Desert (covered in jungles, and grassland O.o) blah blah, 5700 years later, I am at war with Memhed with my allies, blah blah, Germany (backstabbing *****es) attacks me back, blah blah. Ah!! The good bits. At the beginning of the war (circa 1650), The Ottomans were the strongest civ in the world. Sporting 2 vassals (Saladin of Arabia, who spawned in Korea, and decided to spread over Indonesia, and North Australia, and Hatty, a colony of the Ottomans, who exist in South Australia), and a power rating of 0.5 compared to me (IE. Double my strength), they declare war on Rome. In the first turn, Rome asks if I can help, and as I am in Europe, Rome is in West Asia, and the Ottomans are in East Asia (IE. Rome is a buffer), I accept. The war went wrong from the beginning. The Ottomans built an AMAZING stack, with MUCH more siege than I have ever seen in an AI stack, and a large regular force. Before I could build Longbows in most of my cities, Rome had lost 2 cities, and the Ottoman Stack was outside Rome itself, a massive wonder city. If that fell, Rome would surely capitulate to the Ottomans, meaning that I would never survive any Ottoman war. I managed to whip a large army (My capital dropped from size 18 to size 3, whipping Trebs every second turn. With a citidel, they came off the mark with CR III), and send it desperately at the Ottomans. A bloody war ensued, in which I recaptured the Ottoman cities. With 1 loss. Over the next 20 turns or so, I managed to * Make Saladin give up on his vassalage to the Ottomans. I made peace ASAP, but my galleons got pushed into a trap, surrounded on Arabian culture, and land tiles, everywhere. I decided to blockade the Ottoman city, causing them to spam over 50 TRIREMES!! * Capture 2 cities * Raze thier capital, (which also happened to have 2 WW's, 2 NW's, and be the highest production, and gold producing city in the land), and another city, with another WW in it. * Capture thier only source of iron, and blockade (and capture) thier only sheeps. * Drop them down from a 0.5 power rating, to a 1.5 power rating. Just to clarify, I probably killed over half thier troops, and only lost 1 musket, and 1 treb (at 99, and 60% odds respectively). So thats like, what?? 50:1 kill ratio?? * Send thier economy into a nose-dive, forcing them to set thier taxes at a massive 90% in order for them to end up LOSING gold, and 7 GPT (with 79 Gold in thier coffers) So, I ask them what they want for peace. Discussion goes like this. Me: I have razed your land, blown your empire to smithereens, reduced your armies to squabbling rabbles, crushed your economy, destroyed your capital, reduced your power in the world scheme, and my armies of rifles are slaughtering your Jannisaries as we speak!! You lack the gold, and the production, to build Grenadiers, so you are doomed!! Will you save your people, and capitulate? Memhed: No Me: What? Surely, then, you will allow me to have Chemistry anyway... right? Memhed: No. Me: Can I at least have 10 gold? Hell... just anything!! Memhed: I'll give you a map. Me: Wha...?? Memhed: A world map. Our World Map. Me: WHY!? I have scouted the world, I mean, I have 8 friggin' cities in South America, which you wouldn't know where they are... at least give me something... Memhed: No. It seems as if NO is Memhed favorite word. WHY won't Memhed be reasonable... if I was in his position, I would give up... I would have given up about 20 turns ago, and kept my capital!! I HAD to end the war (Germany is 'this close' *fingers 1 mm apart* to a cheese AP win, if either India (his colony), or any other civ get a bit more Confusist, then he can vote for victory... so I will have to unify South America, and destroy the Indians from the face of thier planet, and to hold of Germany, I will need my main attack force... So, my two questions: How can Memhed possibly think he can win?? And who else is a pain in the butt to capitulate, or even get a tech out of!?