Merchant of Venice is the bane of my existence (in game)

[VSorceress]

I'm all about unique abilities with each civilization, but at least make Venice do some actual work to puppet a freaking City-State. Maria Theresa had to at least be allies before getting a diplomatic marriage and acquiring it.


I'm gonna have to take him out now

 

[OmniPotent42]

Yeah, that's pretty much how you have to do it. Just know that Venice's raw production is very limited (as it is only in the capital where units can actually be built) and if you could somehow get an embargo on them they would be totally screwed as well.

Also keep in mind that Venice only has a limited number of MoV's, so they can't spam it and they may actually be easier to deal with than standard civs as the can't rapidly expand.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Venice can't build units elsewhere, but they can buy them in puppets.

 

[ImperialChaos]

Thankfully Venice in my game was right next to me, and in a terrible location, and I took him out instantly.

 

[SamBC]

Losing a Great Person is a pretty big cost.

 

[Ulthwithian]

@OP: It's hard for Venice to do this at an arbitrary point in the game. They can get two-three early, but it's harder after that.

Also, note that (at least by the tooltip) a MoV cannot steal a CS that is at war with Venice... so if you see one approaching a CS ally, a DoW on Enrico will stop the not-quite-hostile takeover.

 

[Raiki]

Yeah, that's pretty much how you have to do it. Just know that Venice's raw production is very limited (as it is only in the capital where units can actually be built) and if you could somehow get an embargo on them they would be totally screwed as well.

I can vouch for this part. In my first game, Venice pushed through an embargo on trade with City States. I thought about repealing it, but decided instead to use it to my advantage. The very next world congress meeting, I schmoozed my way to a complete Embargo on Venice, and since then they've been reduced to a footnote.

Admittedly, they've puppeted a few of my allied CSes, but they're still dead last in every aspect on the demographics screen.

~R~

 

[Vo01985]

I just finished a game as Venice, and boy are they powerful. Their GPT if you have a strong capital and lots of trade routes is out of this world, combined with Big Ben and proper policies (cheap unit/building purchasing) you will just buy your way to a victory. I ended up with a cultural victory, but it might as well has been domination, space or diplomatic. Wow.

 

[Vo01985]

Also, just found a bug? For some reason I am able to build units/buildings in one of my cities. Valletta, was previously a bought city state. The Portugese took it over, and I recaptured it a few turns later. I know own this city and can build stuff. Bug or feature?

 

[VSorceress]

@OP: It's hard for Venice to do this at an arbitrary point in the game. They can get two-three early, but it's harder after that.

Also, note that (at least by the tooltip) a MoV cannot steal a CS that is at war with Venice... so if you see one approaching a CS ally, a DoW on Enrico will stop the not-quite-hostile takeover.

That's a pretty good idea. But Dido can't stand him and already took his capital; I rather acquire the the now puppeted Lhasa (which borders my lands) before she does.

But for the next time he wanders into my game, Can I not allow him access to my lands? I have some CS that my lands barrier. Does the Merchant prevent him from access, or so they function like prophets?

 

[VSorceress]

Also, just found a bug? For some reason I am able to build units/buildings in one of my cities. Valletta, was previously a bought city state. The Portugese took it over, and I recaptured it a few turns later. I know own this city and can build stuff. Bug or feature?

Speaking of bugs, I think that there should at least be a notification on the right side of the screen that says that a CS is now controlled by Venice. In my game, he takes it and I don't realize it until I look at the map.

 

[Yzman]

Also, just found a bug? For some reason I am able to build units/buildings in one of my cities. Valletta, was previously a bought city state. The Portugese took it over, and I recaptured it a few turns later. I know own this city and can build stuff. Bug or feature?

Venice can buy units and buildings in their puppets, considering all of their cities are always puppets.

 

[Ulthwithian]

VSorceress: He cannot enter your lands, but you can't stop him from entering the land of your CS allies. All you can do is block his acquisition by declaring war on him (which makes your CS ally also declare war).

 

[Mercade]

Speaking of bugs, I think that there should at least be a notification on the right side of the screen that says that a CS is now controlled by Venice. In my game, he takes it and I don't realize it until I look at the map.

This. Normal city conquering is announced too, if I recall correctly. For a CS to disappear, that certainly warrants a message.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

This. Normal city conquering is announced too, if I recall correctly. For a CS to disappear, that certainly warrants a message.

There is a notification for Austria. I'm surprised there isn't one for Venice.

 

[BobDole]

It's amusing that some people are complaining about Venice being useless when used by the AI, never using their Merchants...and then this thread is basically the opposite. Guess I'll have to put them in my next game to see who is right, although I do worry about them being Austria 2.0 and wrecking the game by taking so many city-states.

Maria Theresa had to at least be allies before getting a diplomatic marriage and acquiring it.

Yeah, but pre-patch (when G&K launched) she was a nightmare. She'd grab a city-state and ally it before you could do anything.

 

[Talcove]

Actually, Venice does do a lot for gobbling up city states. For starters, they give up the ability to build settlers, so they won't do much expanding without city states. Second, they have to get those great person points up in order to acquire one (Or get to optics/liberty finisher). Finally, they have to parade around this unit whose icon just screams (I WILL NOM NOM NOM YOUR ALLIES) through open land, and other Civ's territory.

 

[MadDjinn]

It's amusing that some people are complaining about Venice being useless when used by the AI, never using their Merchants...and then this thread is basically the opposite. Guess I'll have to put them in my next game to see who is right, although I do worry about them being Austria 2.0 and wrecking the game by taking so many city-states.

Yeah, but pre-patch (when G&K launched) she was a nightmare. She'd grab a city-state and ally it before you could do anything.

This is still the case.

Austria can power though all of the CSs long before Venice can produce enough MoV's to take them. Gold is easy and cheap to get, MoV's are not. Keeping in mind that the gold specialist slots are all back weighted (market 1, bank 1, Stock Exchange 2), Venice isn't really a big issue wrt CS stealing until the late game.

 

[Gyra Solune]

I wonder, does AI Venice possibly start with two free MoVs on Deity? It seems like it'd make sense.

 

[Calouste]

This is still the case.

Austria can power though all of the CSs long before Venice can produce enough MoV's to take them. Gold is easy and cheap to get, MoV's are not. Keeping in mind that the gold specialist slots are all back weighted (market 1, bank 1, Stock Exchange 2), Venice isn't really a big issue wrt CS stealing until the late game.

The Colossus, which is the number one priority wonder for Venice, gives a Great Merchant point as well. The Great Lighthouse gives a GM point as well, but IMO it's way too expensive compared to a normal Lighthouse. First it costs 110 more hammers, second you will miss out on all that extra food and hammers while you're producing those 110 hammers.

But other than that, GMs are indeed hard to get for Venice, and I found Currency is not really high priority for Venice compared to Compass, which opens up a significant number of valuable new sea trade routes due to the added distance (and the two additional trade routes).