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Merchant Republic should be strengthen

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by 8ha8ha, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. 8ha8ha

    8ha8ha Chieftain

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    In History Merchant Republic trade with every country including muslim so that they got the spice and silk from far east. So Merchant Republic should minimize the instablity from different religion. Also no relationship penalty against different religion. What they focus should be money money and money instead of the God.
     
  2. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    Hmm interesting.
     
  3. caphyre

    caphyre Chieftain

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    Maybe, but it's already too preferred by the AI. I think that the Merchant Republic needs some more restrictions to fix it.
     
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  4. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    I agree. Both with the main thought in the opening post and this.
    My initial plan was to add a restriction in the AI civic selection mechanics: it can only choose it, if at least half of it's cities is coastal.
    Would it be better, if something similar was a general rule for the civic? So also applied for the human player?
     
  5. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    Trade does not need to be costal. Just look at the silk road. Trade is attracted by money. I would say: if you have X amount of market+banks+whatever in your cities, then you can switch to MR. I see rather a percentage instead of a plain number. Also i belive big empires should not be able to do this. I mean uf you have 10 cities you cant.
     
  6. The Turk

    The Turk Chieftain

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    Definitely this. There needs to be restrictions from the AI choosing Merchant republics. If you have more than 4-5 cities, you shouldn't be able to become a Merchant Republic. And no "Republics" if you are a Muslim state (the idea just doesn't make sense in Islamic political ideology).
     
  7. The Turk

    The Turk Chieftain

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    Trade is attracted by consumers. Does not need to be a "merchant republic" to facilitate this. Republics emerged in Northern Italy because of the weakness of the rural gentry (Lombards), and the strength of civic governments to assert their power vis-a-vis their erstwhile Lombard lords.

    I would severely restrict Merchant republics to where it makes sense to have them. Indeed the more I think about it, a Hansa civ would be pretty awesome, to couple the Genoese and Venetians. Or have them be represented as a unique type of "Independent civ".
     
  8. cmakk1012

    cmakk1012 Chieftain

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    This would only work if the Germany civ was reworked a bit—which would be fine by me. I could see it split into an early medieval HRE civ and a late medieval respawn as a much smaller state—Saxony or something.
     
  9. The Turk

    The Turk Chieftain

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    Early Ottonian --> Hohenstaufen Germany can stay as is, but should collapse after. It would be far more preferential to have unique independent civs to represent some of the powerful Duchies and Archbishoprics in the Holy Roman Empire.
     
  10. cmakk1012

    cmakk1012 Chieftain

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    The challenge is of course not making the territory of the HRE so weak that it gets gobbled up by France and Hungary. Maybe make the whole thing a “minor civ” like the Serbs that constantly revolts under foreign rule? But then that’s not historical either..
     
  11. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    I was thinking about this, but just make no sense gameplay wise. In this case france, hungary, poland and austria will be unchallanged. Only demnark would benefit from it.
     
  12. cmakk1012

    cmakk1012 Chieftain

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    Yeah, gameplay wise it doesn’t work that well.

    You’re right about Denmark, though—what if they were given a positive default relation with Germany to prevent conquest?
     
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  13. The Low King

    The Low King Chieftain

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    Denmark was conquered by Germany, they were a vassal until the death of Otto II in 983. It was only the chaos and rebellions afterwards that allowed them to break free.

    As for merchant republics, plenty of nations (like France) allied and traded with Muslim powers. I think there should be a penalty of some kind for any non-coastal city a Merchant republic has, the only merchant republics should be Thalassocracys
     
  14. The Turk

    The Turk Chieftain

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    There was literally "chaos" and "anarchy" every single time a King died, up until the Habsburgs monopolized power (and even then...).

    Like in SoI, the Merchant Republic civic should be restricted to specific civs (like Caste system in SoI, which produced instability for non-Muslims). The Merchant republic of Spain is really annoying to see.
     
  15. The Low King

    The Low King Chieftain

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    I agree that the simplest solution would be to restrict the Merchant Republic to specific civs. But having limited city numbers and requiring them to all be coastal would cover that fairly well.

    There were plenty of times when there was a peaceful handover of power after the death of a king. Generally it was at least a relatively stable handover, even if there were conflicts. The death of Otto II however, left a 3 year old Emperor and most of northern Germany in rebellion. By the time the Holy Roman Empire was stable again (30 years later), Denmark had the north sea Empire.

    But more generally, my point is that plenty of neighbours of Germany were its Vassals at various points, including Denmark, Poland, Italy and Burgundy. Its entirely reasonable early on for Germany to be a super power.
     
  16. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    The problem though is that stability problems short of a complete collapse often aren't very effective in terms of weakening strong civilizations, in part because they usually keep their giant stacks that can easily be used to reconquer the not-terribly well defended respawns or independent cities.
     
  17. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Are you talking about the AI or the human player too?
    There was a recent addon, that the AI can only take the Merchant Republic civic, if more than 50% of their cities are coastal.
    Was thinking about a max number of cities rule too, but that's sorta covered with the stability penalty.
    I prefer to leave that part as a soft rule, since I would still like to see Venice as a MR, even it got very powerful and have 10+ coastal cities.
     
  18. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Is that still happening? With the latest versions too?
     
  19. The Low King

    The Low King Chieftain

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    I meant for a human player too, it seems like being able to become a merchant republic as nations like Spain is a bit strong, but having say a stability penalty for each non-coastal city would discourage it without a hard coded limit.

    That said, if there is a plan to add more civs like Sicily then you might end up with a few too many Merchant republics again.
     
  20. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    There is already a stability penalty for big civs (for each city after the 5th), do you mean an additional penalty, or instead of that one?
     

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