Mexican anger over US 'trespass'

[Arminius]

I wonder, skadistic and others, would have a problem with this scenario?

I'm wealthy, and with some of my wealthy friends I decide to start a program whereby we provide for poor people in other countries, including Mexico, free immigration to the United States. We pay all fees, and take care of the paperwork. We also arrange for them jobs (decent paying ones in companies that are unionized), housing, and schooling for their children. They don't pay a dime, they simply get to have a better life for themselves, and these are people that would ordinarily have to immigrate "illegally". Of course we'd check their background, and not do it for people who have serious offenses (murder, drug trafficking, etc), but we'd overlook minor offenses.

Would you have a problem with that?

No, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Furthermore, thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy of both skadistic and Zarn. Huzzah, I say, huzzah.

 

[Drewcifer]

It should be remembered that when the Mexican government complains to the US about stuff like this it is almost always for domestic (Mexican) political consumption. Complaining about America sells well there politically, they don't expect us to actually do anything about it.

 

[JollyRoger]

It should be remembered that when the Mexican government complains to the US about stuff like this it is almost always for domestic (Mexican) political consumption. Complaining about America sells well there politically, they don't expect us to actually do anything about it.

Complaining about illegals is also a popular thing for American politicians to do. However, because their donor base consists of corporations that like the cheap labor supply, American politicians will never do anything to seriously threaten the flow.

 

[Drewcifer]

Complaining about illegals is also a popular thing for American politicians to do. However, because their donor base consists of corporations that like the cheap labor supply, American politicians will never do anything to seriously threaten the flow.

Exactly, it's just a little dance our two countries do. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Zarn]

I never said that anyone was superior to anyone. People apparently do not have the right to live wherever they want. As we have laws that state that you can't live in someones backyard unless they allow you to. I see this the same way, if a homeless man were to ask to stay in my house he could stay if I said yes, and if I said no does that give him the right to break in?

And I think this law is fairly reasonable compared to "convert and die" scenarios. Technically under the law he would be a criminal, in that country. Whether that's right or wrong must be decided. We know it's wrong to discriminate against someone, but no one has confirmed that limiting the number of immigrants allowed in is discrimination. Mexicans can come here, just not in the back of someones trunk.

And I do think more should be allowed to come legally, but breaking this law is still wrong regardless.

I already told you that laws do not create rights. Laws can be right or wrong. Breaking a wrong law does not make a person a criminal.

No, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Furthermore, thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy of both skadistic and Zarn. Huzzah, I say, huzzah.

How exactly am I being a hypocrite?

Edit: JR is right about the politicians.

 

[Drewcifer]

It is funny that things play out this way on the international stage because on an individual level Mexicans and Americans tend to get along well, at least in my personal experience. It is not uncommon for Mexicans and gringos to hang out, be friends, date, etc. In my city there is probably less cultural distance between native born population and the Mexicans than with any of the other major immigrant groups.

 

[skadistic]

Surely these people are in the US because they can get jobs and earn far more money than at home? Sure, some (a few) will be doing bad things, like involvement in crime, but most will want to keep their heads down and noses clean so they don't come to the immigration department's notice and get deported back over the wire.

But according to you these six million folks are either:
- doing nothing useful, or
- doing nothing at all?

I may be wrong, but I suspect you are kidding yourself....

Its more like 10 million and hundreds of thousands are in tax payer funded jails.
Do your self a favour and read up on MS-13.

And how does any of this negate the crimes they already commited? How does not commiting another crime give them a pass. And illegals don't realy worry about getting caught. Incase you haven't noticed nothing happens to them. The get government hand outs the rest of citizens can't.

They didn't label themselves. The government did. Maybe the problem is that they can't come legally, because the government has a stick in a place it shouldn't be.

Calling them 'illegals' and 'criminals' is not getting your agenda across. Sorry, I refuse to be brainwashed.

They didn't lable tyhem selves????? WTF does that have to do with the fact that they are willing criminals. What stick in what place that it shouldn't be? Looks like illegals have their asses in a place it shouldn't be. My agenda is called common sence, call a spade a spade. I'm sorry I won't be an opligist for criminals who willing brake the law.

What other crimes are you willing to excuse?

No, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Furthermore, thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy of both skadistic and Zarn. Huzzah, I say, huzzah.

What exactly was the hypocricy?

 

[Zarn]

They didn't lable tyhem selves????? WTF does that have to do with the fact that they are willing criminals. What stick in what place that it shouldn't be? Looks like illegals have their asses in a place it shouldn't be. My agenda is called common sence, call a spade a spade. I'm sorry I won't be an opligist for criminals who willing brake the law.

What other crimes are you willing to excuse?

How about they are not criminals. They are people trying to make a living. The only thing in the way is a senseless law. This is a land of opportunity (or at least it claims to be), and they are willing to take the risks to feed their families.

You are simply hiding behind the law. What is the real reason?

 

[skadistic]

How about they are not criminals. They are people trying to make a living. The only thing in the way is a senseless law. This is a land of opportunity (or at least it claims to be), and they are willing to take the risks to feed their families.

You are simply hiding behind the law. What is the real reason?

Are you kidding me? They aren't criminals? They aren't braking the law?

This is the land of oppertunity for those who play by the rules. People who don't want to abide by the laws to even get in sure as hell don't deserve the privilage to enter.

What is the real reason I want the law enforced? Because I'm not an apollogist for criminals like you are. Because I know a few legal immigrants who are chumps because they did it the honest way, hell I live with one. Because of the resurgance of TB in America. Because of the medical costs illegals incure that total in the billions and is payed by the legal citizens. Because of gangs like MS-13. Because of the thousands and thousands and thousands of illegals in jail at tax payer expence. Because of the armed gangs that bribe the Mexican gov. and army to smuggle people over, have you seen what its like on the Mexican side of the border. Because of all the news stories of some illegal that killed,raped,molested or robbed a citizen, those crimes should have never happened since they shouldn't have been here anyway.

The laws are there for a reason.

http://www.thedustininmansociety.org/no_more_deaths/no_more_deaths.html

Read all the stories in the list of names at the bottom.

 

[Zarn]

I'm am in no way a criminal apologist. I told you to stop with the propaganda words. It does not add to the discussion.

You just used a stereotype. 'Citizens' commit murders, and not all 'illegals' commit any real crimes.

Like I said, if they were not illegal (meaning the gov actually gave them a chance), then they would pay taxes. They are plenty of good, hard working people out there.

 

[Nylan]

I already told you that laws do not create rights. Laws can be right or wrong. Breaking a wrong law does not make a person a criminal.

Unfortunately, I highly doubt that every illegal immigrant is (if in fact, any are) a Henry David Thoreau

They're not breaking it because they think it's wrong

they're breaking it because they want to

 

[Zarn]

Unfortunately, I highly doubt that every illegal immigrant is (if in fact, any are) a Henry David Thoreau

They're not breaking it because they think it's wrong

they're breaking it because they want to

They are breaking it, because they need to.

 

[Nylan]

They are breaking it, because they need to.

Hmm, I need money


since I need it, why shouldn't I rob a bank? That makes lots of sense. Because I need to, I'm not doing anything wrong at all

 

[JollyRoger]

Hmm, I need money


since I need it, why shouldn't I rob a bank? That makes lots of sense. Because I need to, I'm not doing anything wrong at all

There is a qualitative difference between robbing a bank and crossing a border to work.

 

[TheBladeRoden]

Mexicans NEED to get jobs with smaller commutes.

 

[skadistic]

I'm am in no way a criminal apologist. I told you to stop with the propaganda words. It does not add to the discussion.Stop apoligizing for criminals.

They are breaking it, because they need to.

Thats called being an apoligist.

You just used a stereotype. 'Citizens' commit murders, and not all 'illegals' commit any real crimes.What?

Like I said, if they were not illegal (meaning the gov actually gave them a chance), then they would pay taxes. They are plenty of good, hard working people out there.

If they didn't brake the law they wouldn't be criminals and if they didn't enter illegaly and did it the honest way I wouldn't care but they didn't they willingly comited crimes. One of wich is tax evasion. And your right there are plenty of good hard working people there, they are the ones coming legaly and honsetly

 

[Nylan]

There is a qualitative difference between robbing a bank and crossing a border to work.

It's the same principal of breaking the law because you need to


it's still breaking the law

is stealing bread close enough for you?

same principal


if it was deliberate civil disobedience it would be another matter

 

[JollyRoger]

It's the same principal of breaking the law because you need to


it's still breaking the law

is stealing bread close enough for you?

same principal


if it was deliberate civil disobedience it would be another matter

I would say crossing a border to work for your bread is qualitatively better than stealing bread.

 

[Nylan]

but it is a worse crime in the eyes of the government

that was what I assumed your point was

 

[JollyRoger]

but it is a worse crime in the eyes of the government

that was what I assumed your point was

No - my point was from a moral perspective. Surely you would rather be the victim of a border crossing than the victim of a robbery or theft.