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[TOT] MGE Conversions

Thorvald of Lym

A Little Sketchy
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Nov 21, 2005
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Spun off from my posts in the Modified Scenarios Workshop thread, this is a progress tracker for my work to update the original MGE scenario roster for compatibility with Test of Time. It also serves as a sounding board for input on rebalances and graphical updates. The plan is to post individual scenarios in this thread for preliminary feedback/playtesting, and upload everything to the Downloads DB as a complete set.

SCENARIOS ALREADY AVAILABLE:
ROME & WWII1
MARS2MOMJRMOOJR2VERNE

1 – WWII employs custom events to replicate AI behaviour; see also Post 8.
2 – Customized remakes with modified rules.


The table is mostly self-explanatory, but I'll run through it anyway:
  • Scenario: Name of the scenario folder in the original MGE index (sans BESTONET/BESTNET2 nesting).
  • Status:Progress in the conversion:
    • Debugging: The CTDs in the Alpha Set have since been solved, but some still need additional work.
    • Graphics: Scenario is playable and it's a cosmetic job now.
    • Finished: Patched, polished, and fit for release.
  • Revamp?: Scenarios considered for revision/expansion beyond their original rules. 'Y' are ones I plan to do, 'M' I'm on the fence/speccing only minor changes.
  • Latest preview: Link to the most recent downloadable demo in this thread.

ScenarioStatusRevamp?Latest preview
ALEXANDRGraphicsNPost #26
ALIENGraphicsNN/A
APOCALYPDebuggingYPost #28
ATLANTISDebuggingNN/A
ATOLONGraphicsMN/A
BATTLEDebuggingMN/A
BEARSDebuggingMN/A
BIOGraphicsNN/A
BRIT1011GraphicsNPost #33
CIVILWARGraphicsNPost #30
CROSCRESGraphicsNN/A
CRUSADESGraphicsNN/A
DINOSAURGraphicsNPost #16
DISCOVERGraphicsYN/A
EASTWINDGraphicsMN/A
GULFWARDebuggingMN/A
HIDDENGraphicsNN/A
ICEPLNETGraphicsNN/A
INDEPENDGraphicsNN/A
JIHADDebuggingMN/A
KESHGraphicsYPost #32
MAMMOTHGraphicsYN/A
MARSDebuggingNN/A
MIDGARDGraphicsNN/A
MONGOLGraphicsNN/A
MOOJRDebuggingMN/A
NAPOLEONGraphicsNN/A
NEWWORLDGraphicsNN/A
PARADISEGraphicsYN/A
REBELDebuggingYN/A
SAMURAIDebuggingNN/A
SANTAGraphicsMN/A
USA2010GraphicsYN/A
WWIGraphicsNPost #27
WW79GraphicsNN/A
X-COMGraphicsNN/A
ZEUSGraphicsNN/A
 
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The New World is mostly finished save for graphics: I've combed through everything available here and have a pretty good replacement roster for unit and city sprites, but if anyone knows additional sources for Native American flavour, give a shout. I'm thinking of adapting the Civ3 popheads for the citizen sprites, since I doubt anyone made a full four-era native set.

The only potential rules tweak involves unit availability: ToT's 'tribe can build' flags supersede the need for a rather confounding arrangement of three separate definitions for "Soldiers": Slot 7 (unbuildable by anyone), Slot 61 (Africans-unique), and Slot 62 (expires with "Hunting/Gathering").
 

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Please, please add the Rise of Rome (Rome.scn) and WW2 from the original Civ2 game to the list! If any help with the graphics is needed, I will do my best.
 
Please, please add the Rise of Rome (Rome.scn) and WW2 from the original Civ2 game to the list! If any help with the graphics is needed, I will do my best.
Thankye kindly! I was gonna do these piece-by-piece, but maybe I should dump the units all at once and you can peruse 'em at your leisure. :cool:

Dadais actually did the original original scenarios [OP updated], though I discovered the WWII AI toggle isn't disabled in ToT, so I'll see if it won't yet play as designed.
 
Oh man this is great to see mate!
Although I should mention the MOOJR and Mars ToT versions by St Leo and Kestrel respectively are really only similar/inspired by and not actually conversions of the originals.
Aye, for the ones I plan to rework seriously I'm debating whether to fork direct transcriptions in this pack and spin off the expanded versions as stand-alone à la The Day After—MAMMOTH and USA2010 will be rebalanced significantly because the unit specs are all over the place. :crazyeye:

I'm not that sure about that.
Memories about childhood aren't vivid enough on my side.
Playing MGE and ToT side-by-side, there's a visible difference: the "WWII Logic" has units follow historical patterns of engagement on the first turn: Axis rushes Paris, peaces out ~Turn 3, whereas without the flag they concentrated on Strasbourg and would peace out even without taking Paris. It's also what enables construction of the Manhattan Project even though wonders are flagged as objectives.

I don't know if it's a corruption by later expansions, but even in MGE the exact behaviour in later turns is inconsistent: I remember in the vanilla game, the Axis would seize Cherbourg and St. Nazaire to secure the Atlantikwall, and the French would always break their alliance with the Allies to represent the Vichy régime; I thought the Axis was hard-coded to sneak-attack Russia circa Barbarossa, but it's into '42 and still no shots. Hell, the Allies peaced out in '41! :lol:

I've attached the .SCN with the WWII logic and rules re-enabling MP for those that want to play around with it.
 

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I do not understand what is the point of your activity, why you need to translate prehistoric and obsolete MGE scenarios into TOT format. However, this is your business...

As far as I remember these scenarios, there was no additional logic in them, except for the usual vanilla Civ2 AI logic. The AI acts in Rome, Napoleon, WWII scenarios just like it would in a vanilla game on a random map. A huge credit to the TOT scenario designers is that they were able to get the AI to act differently. In MGE, this was not possible. What's the point of making these scenarios work differently if they've outdated at everything they can?

If the horse is dead, dismount?
 
Aye, for the ones I plan to rework seriously I'm debating whether to fork direct transcriptions in this pack and spin off the expanded versions as stand-alone à la The Day After—MAMMOTH and USA2010 will be rebalanced significantly because the unit specs are all over the place. :crazyeye:
Yeah there's something to be said for releasing a straight 1:1 conversion with maybe a few graphics updates and bug fixes for the purists, and then releasing a heavily enhanced/modified version separately for all us dreamers lol. That way everyone gets what they want. If Gapetit hadn't of posted the MoMJr straight conversion in his thread I would have anyway as obviously in 2051 when I finally friggin release my enhanced version some people may not like all the changes lol.

I do not understand what is the point of your activity, why you need to translate prehistoric and obsolete MGE scenarios into TOT format. However, this is your business...

As far as I remember these scenarios, there was no additional logic in them, except for the usual vanilla Civ2 AI logic. The AI acts in Rome, Napoleon, WWII scenarios just like it would in a vanilla game on a random map. A huge credit to the TOT scenario designers is that they were able to get the AI to act differently. In MGE, this was not possible. What's the point of making these scenarios work differently if they've outdated at everything they can?

If the horse is dead, dismount?
Converting popular old MGE scenarios to ToT and making various visual and/or gameplay improvements/enhancements to them has been an important part of this community since SL guys started doing over at Poly the 2000s. People were pretty sad a year or so ago when Gapetit retired from doing it as the conversion process is difficult so it's great to see Thorvald taking up the mantle! Everything we do in this community is 20 years too late lol, but you and the rest of us keep coming here and playing/creating things because we still love it. If we're gonna start pointing fingers at particular activities on this forum saying the horse is dead then this whole house of cards comes crashing down.
 
I think its great you're taking the time to convert these scenarios; there are so many i'd love to play again :) really thrilled you're finding scenarios I thought were long gone, too. ToT always ends up being dusted off and replayed ever so often by me; its amazing just how versatile it is and how well it stands up as a game even all these years later.
 
I do not understand what is the point of your activity, why you need to translate prehistoric and obsolete MGE scenarios into TOT format. However, this is your business...

As far as I remember these scenarios, there was no additional logic in them, except for the usual vanilla Civ2 AI logic. The AI acts in Rome, Napoleon, WWII scenarios just like it would in a vanilla game on a random map. A huge credit to the TOT scenario designers is that they were able to get the AI to act differently. In MGE, this was not possible. What's the point of making these scenarios work differently if they've outdated at everything they can?

If the horse is dead, dismount?
I don't feel like a Neanderthal playing something prehistoric, like when you play Tetris on a smartphone you're playing a classic, because no matter how old it is, it's simple but fun... I can't say that the era of a game with thousands of players and many people creating and improving scenarios should disappear because it is obsolete... when we can move them to ToT 1.1, and there is TOTPP and Lua (and thanks to Fairline, Curt Sibling, Catfish and many others, we have a huge amount of graphics for your visual enhancement). If it is obsolete, it could not evolve or be improved... And already in MGE, through events, the AI was greatly improved and the emotion increased... Therefore, if a scenario does not meet your expectations, improve it! Today you have it easier.
 
My art friends inform me it is Jurassic June, so in honour of the occasion I'm fast-tracking the Dinosaur scenario. The only significant graphical change is the terrain; there are a couple sprites I'm still playing with, but overall it's mostly settled. I'd tried to replicate the MGE swamp by combining vegetation overlays with the 24bit marsh tiles, but so far I haven't found a good pairing that doesn't bleed into the jungle.

Cities basically work as-is apart from adjusting status icon placement—the only thing I haven't found is appropriate airbase substitutes.

Units hold up surprisingly well: all that really needs tweaking some vertical placements and better separating the fliers from their ground shadow. I'm looking to add tribe masks for most of these conversions, though I'm not sure how well I can colour-code the dinos.

Otherwise it's translating the events macro to Lua for TOTPP.
 

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Cities basically work as-is apart from adjusting status icon placement—the only thing I haven't found is appropriate airbase substitutes.
Noice work! I remember modding legend John Valdez @CivPartisan made an enhanced Dino scenario modpack in the 90s so I thought maybe he'd found an appropriate airbase equivalent, but I just checked and no go sadly.

I think the fantasy scenario for ToT has a elevated cliff thingo as a airbase.. and I can remember some other Civ2 scenario out there having some sort of eagle cliff nest.. but argh can't remember which one.

.
 
I think the fantasy scenario for ToT has a elevated cliff thingo as a airbase.. and I can remember some other Civ2 scenario out there having some sort of eagle cliff nest.. but argh can't remember which one.
Aye, worst comes to worst I can rub out the hover—the wyvern is plausibly passable as a pteradon at that scale. :p
 
Well this month ran away on me and while I'm still working on porting the events to Lua, the basic scenario is cleaned up and playable. The only other major change pending is including ToTPP-compatible discrete cities to maintain different tribe styles during the Renaissance block. I may look into additional graphics for the larger pedia icons, but I don't know if I'll manage a match for all improvements.
 

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while I'm still working on porting the events to Lua

I have Lua code that does this. If you don't want to ship my entire template, I can prepare a more compact version of the code.
 
I have Lua code that does this. If you don't want to ship my entire template, I can prepare a more compact version of the code.
Grazie. Most of TNO's translation instructions are straightforward, but he didn't provide demo code for an equivalent to the tile selection rectangle in the changeterrain macro, and I've been fishing around for a usable example. It's not strictly required, but there's also no stated equivalent to DONTPLAYWONDERS.

I'd looked at the Template in the hope I could pull out what I needed, but I'm embarrassed to admit it's overwhelming to a neophyte. :sad:
 
Grazie. Most of TNO's translation instructions are straightforward, but he didn't provide demo code for an equivalent to the tile selection rectangle in the changeterrain macro, and I've been fishing around for a usable example. It's not strictly required, but there's also no stated equivalent to DONTPLAYWONDERS.

I'd looked at the Template in the hope I could pull out what I needed, but I'm embarrassed to admit it's overwhelming to a neophyte. :sad:
This is all you have to do to get an existing scenario with macro style events:
To get started, Follow the following instructions:
  1. Make a backup copy of your scenario folder, just in case.
  2. If you have an events.txt file for the old style "macro" or "legacy" events in your scenario folder, rename it to legacyEvents.txt.
  3. Download the LuaTemplate code.
  4. Copy the contents of this template into your scenario folder. Do not include the LuaTemplate-main folder. That is, you should be copying 6 folders and a couple other files into your scenario folder.
  5. If you have legacy events, move legacyEvents.txt from the main scenario folder into the EventsFiles folder, replacing the existing file.
If your legacyEvents.txt file contains no errors, you can now load up your scenario to keep working on it. If it does, the Lua Console will appear, and tell you the last line of the last event that was parsed successfully. Check the next event for errors.

When you load a game, you'll probably get a message about how the Legacy Event Engine has been updated. Choose to clear the saved data and save the game. You won't get the message again (unless you change your legacyEvents.txt file, or update the Legacy Event Engine).

The legacy events converter/engine is NOT!!! meant to be a way to learn to write code. It should "just work" as long as the legacyEvents.txt file is a valid events file for the macro system. If it doesn't just work, I can offer support.

Since you're probably not going to re-save the .scn file, I can give you a version of the legacy event engine code that doesn't give the update popup.

EDIT: of course, if you're converting the events manually to learn the system, that's OK too.

I don't think that Test of Time has wonder videos, so you probably just eliminate the DONTPLAYWONDERS event. That event isn't in the documentation I have at any rate.
 
If the MGE wonder videos are copied across to ToT they'll play however that's only in sandbox mode, not scenario mode.. as I sadly discovered with my Heroes of Might & Magic scenario there's just no way I could get wonder videos to play in scenario mode unless I hex edited the save file and removed the scenario flag, so I don't even know why that DONTPLAYWONDERS event even existed (maybe a relic of pre-MGE ie FW or CiC times?) as it's not needed anymore and those videos will seemingly not play in scenario mode no matter how much I want them to lol. Anyway so what's bad for me is good for you as you shouldn't have to worry about unwanted videos playing in your converted scenario even if the person has wonder videos in their ToT install. As for me while I'm stuffed in MGE I'm guessing that when I do a ToT conversion I can bypass this issue with manual event video file calls when a wonder is built (I was gonna run that by Garfield on a future date).
 
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