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Mid to late game: Ideologies or Social Policies?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by eXeel, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. eXeel

    eXeel Chieftain

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    I am not a warring nation, by default.
    I find myself choosing the freedom or autocracy ideologies over order, most often.
    But I am not that impressed with the upgrades. Maybe I get two level 1 tenets and one level 2. And then I go back to the other social policies (commerce or the one with science).

    What are your takes on this? Is ideologies always better to spend Social Policy points on, or?
     
  2. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Ideologies have some good level 3 tenets for victory speedup. (particularly diplomacy)

    They are also really good for happiness in a wide empire.

    But it basically depends on your situation, some Social policies will be better (particularly rationalism in a Science Victory... only Order has something somewhat better for that)

    For diplo victory.. the Tenets in autocracy and Order are really good

    For cultural victory.. Order and Freedom have some good Tenets (Autocracies relies on you being a bit of a warmonger)

    and you aren't looking at Domination Victory I assume
     
  3. Gus_Smedstad

    Gus_Smedstad Warlord

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    There are some awfully powerful tier-2 policies, particularly the Order policy that gives you a science boost for Factories and doubles the construction speed for factories. If you have any sort of unhappiness issue, it's hard to beat the number of Ideology policies that give 2-3 happiness per city, available in all three ideologies.

    Personally, I think Autocracy kind of sucks, even for warmongering. Freedom's +34% Tourism at tier 3 is really significant if you're trying for a Culture victory.
     
  4. eXeel

    eXeel Chieftain

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    Okay, need to rethink it them, might be me bring too low qualified, that I don't see the advantages or understand how to use it:) I skip tourism and also religion mostly...
     
  5. Gus_Smedstad

    Gus_Smedstad Warlord

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    You need to pay some attention to Tourism, since you'll suffer a massive unhappiness hit in the late game if a Civ with a different ideology is more influential over you than you are over them. You don't need to take Freedom's +34% Tourism to stave that off, though. A few early Writers placing Great Works in Amphitheaters can go a long way.

    Religion is similarly something you need to learn to use, since the benefits are significant - +3 happiness each city at a minimum if you aren't scrounging scraps when the time comes to choose beliefs. You don't have to found a religion yourself, of course, you can borrow on from a neighboring Civ and get the Follower benefits.
     
  6. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Here's what I do:

    1. Usually I haven't yet completed Rationalism tree when I reach the ideology so I finish Rationalism before doing anything more than free tenets into an Ideology.

    2. After that, then I reach a level 3 tenet matching my preferred victory type. (These are all really powerful)
    If my chosen form of victory is Cultural, I will then complete the Ascetics tree and may even open exploration if the Lovre isn't yet taken and then return to tenents.

    If my chosen form of Victory is Diplomatic, I'll complete another level 3 tenet next as a back up plan though and after this might choose some more policies.
     
  7. civ54lyfe

    civ54lyfe Prince

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    last couple games i've been really tempted not to finish Rat, which is a new feeling thnx to Ideologies. haven't given in yet which is probably the right choice
     
  8. Muskie

    Muskie Warlord

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    Vancouver BC Canada
    I tend to get my first level 2, then usually I'm tempted by unfinished social policies. Finishing off even Patronage is a big deal. If I'm only one or two from finishing a social policy I usually put off working on my ideology. But it depends on what the AI is doing.

    I often choose my ideology to oppose whoever I see as the biggest risk to victory. If I'm first to choose any ideology I generally go Order or Freedom, but if I'm not first I usually ally with the person who got the first ideology if they are a valuable trading partner or I oppose the leader by choosing another ideology.

    I generally win diplomatically most often, though that seems much harder after the patch. I'll need to play an entire game or three post patch not just have the game patch in the middle of the industrial/modern ages.
     
  9. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Right now it kind of depends. If you are not running any RAs and will not, you may be better off delaying the RA enhancing one in order to get a more expensive free tech when you do pick it to finish the tree. (You'd still want the others ASAP)

    But if you are running RAs then you are best off completing the tree ASAP because the other choice for final Rationalism policy has significant ongoing benefits independent of the closer.
     
  10. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    I save a couple of writers to bulb a tier 2 tenet before going back to rationalism, then depending on my VC I will bounce back and forth between tenets and ideologies usually favoring rationalism so I can time the finisher for a late tech by bulbing more writers.
     
  11. Slip de Garcon

    Slip de Garcon Warlord

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    I don't tend to target ideologies as I know I'll get to keep my social policies whatever happens.
     
  12. Fire0rb

    Fire0rb Warlord

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    I think you got it wrong there. Tourism does not protect you from the -happiness you get through other ideologies. All you need is culture/turn. If you have 300-400 cpt in Turn 180-250 it should be enough to get your civilization content in that ideology.

    I guess the side effect you are noticing from getting great works is that you generate a lot of culutre though these works which give you more cpt. With this you can withstand a lof of foreign tourism.

    To OP:
    I tend to favor Order because of the factory tenet with 25% research boost and the happiness policies. Another nice perk of Order is the new tier 3 tenet Iron Cuttain which boost your internal trade routes by 50% which could help to feed up your cities.
    I think there are enough very good tenets in all 3 ideologies to put at least 7-10 policies in it.
     
  13. Atinuviel

    Atinuviel Chieftain

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    I've tried both, and I feel like Autocracy is just superior for pure unadulterated warmongering. A Brandenburg Gate for every city is great, and with warmongering I just feel that you don't really need that many buildings to get your cities online, so cheaper unit purchase is good in a pinch.
     
  14. njmfff

    njmfff Prince

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    I would say Freedom is quite impressive when it comes to warmongering. :lol:

    It allows you to have high populated cities and enough happiness to maintain captured cities. :lol: Oh, and you can always get 6 Foreign Legion to turn into effective warmonger in a matter of turn.

    Order is awesome for science and even culture victory, but I found Autocracy the worst of ideologies (not sure about recent patch tho, if there were any changes). The other negative thing about Autocracy is that AI prefers Order and Freedom, so unless you really boost your culture, you'll get massive happiness hits from influences, and spending time to develop culture makes you less effective warmonger. :cry:
     
  15. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    On the mechanic of ideological unrest, it uses the difference between what level of influence each civ has over the other.
    So some tourism + culture is also better defense than the same quantity of culture alone.
    If not really after a cultural victory but interested in avoiding unhappiness penalties, just build the guilds and run those, which will generate enough great works to keep you from getting more than a level behind anyone.
     

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