Middle Ages Mod idea thread

[Kailric]

@KJ Jansson

That Viking flag looks sweet, red looks good. Looking forward to seeing what all else you can come up with.

Though I might not have much time with other mods and work, it sounds like a great mod and I'd be glad to help out with it when I can. Maybe I could help out by making some Events, I've done lots of those in the past.

Those are some fresh ideas, orlanth, thanks. I haven't started working on resources just yet so that is helpful. Having some events would be a very nice touch. Not sure what all you have in mind but maybe after we get a first version uploaded it can help in inspiring some ideas. If you have some ideas now send them via PM that way players of the Mod will be more "surprised" at the events and make it more interesting.

I am looking to have at least 3 or 4 different playstyles depending on what Leader you choose to play as. Example:

Vikings- Conquer and Colonize:Want have a king to answer to but will be able to sail home to Scandinavia to sell their loot and get more supplies. Their main goal will be to Conquer and Colonize.

Byzantine-Independence: Your Emperor will be Justinian. You will be tasked with appeasing your Emperor by Conquering the various Barbarians and providing your King with the spoils of war. Your main goal will be to build up your Colonies and declare your "independence" or right to be King, much like the Vanilla game expect the Emperor will start wars and expect you to fight for him.

Franks-Crowned Emperor: Want have a king to answer too. This version will work much like CIV4 where you build your towns up, learn new techs, conquer or make allies with your neighbors, tax your subjects, give them freedoms or make them slaves. Your main goal is to be Crowned "Emperor" either by conquering all your foes or by all other counties swearing allegiance to you.

Arabs-Holy War: much like Crowned Emperor except you are spreading your Religion. Convert or die will be the motto.

 

[KJ Jansson]

@KJ Jansson

That Viking flag looks sweet, red looks good. Looking forward to seeing what all else you can come up with.

I try to be historically correct. Unfortunately, I found too much very contradictory information concerning Flags of middle-aged civilizations, especially in Europe.

I guess it would be correct to publish here a draft list of possible civilization from your Middle Ages mod and everybody could submit his jpg or bmp variants of such flags. Or just to show the source where such pictures are available to see.

We live in different countries and each of us knows better the history of his own country and the local sources of information.

I could make a required Flag from any graphic file.

 

[Kailric]

I try to be historically correct. Unfortunately, I found too much very contradictory information concerning Flags of middle-aged civilizations, especially in Europe.

I guess it would be correct to publish here a draft list of possible civilization from your Middle Ages mod and everybody could submit his jpg or bmp variants of such flags. Or just to show the source where such pictures are available to see.

We live in different countries and each of us knows better the history of his own country and the local sources of information.

I could make a required Flag from any graphic file.

Well, my guess would be the contradictories come from the fact that the middle ages was in a state of constant war. Somewhere on the map at any given time someone was at war with someone else, rulerships changed hands, and thus flags where changed. I will post a list of the possible Civilizations and their leaders on the first post.

Edit: I'll also post a list of things to do in the next day or two so that people can volunteer if they would like.

 

[Kailric]

I am working up a list of Goods and Materials. Using the suggestions in this thread this is the list I have so far:

Hides (Cattle Farmer) -> Leather (Tanner, in Tannery)
Wool (Shepherd) -> Cloth (Weaver, in Weaver's Hut)
Barley (Thresher) -> Ale (Brewer, in Brewery)
Dyes (Fuller) -> Manuscripts (Scrivener, in Monastery)
Wood(Lumberjack)
Stone (Quarryman)
Salt
Cotton(Cotton Planter)->Cloth
Fur
Weapons
Armor
Gold
Silver
Iron Ore
Tools
Wine
Wheat(Farmer) -> Bread (Baker)
Horses
Cows
Sheep
Fish
Food
Spices

Specialty Goods:

Silk(?) -> Fine Cloth(Weaver)
Porcelain

Specialty goods will only be available through research. The first to research gets the Specialty and they will be the only ones to make the item unless they trade the tech or a spy steals it... yes there will be spies

Also, I plan on makeing some of the resouces work Similar to CIV4 in that you have to have Bonus source in order to make/harvest the resource. Also, there may be more than one way to abtain certain goods such as food. Either from Cows that make Cheese, Famers Wheat to make Bread, and Fisherman.

With this list of goods I will be working up a list of professions as well.

 

[KJ Jansson]

I am working up a list of Goods and Materials. Using the suggestions in this thread this is the list I have so far:

Hides (Cattle Farmer) -> Leather (Tanner, in Tannery)
Wool (Shepherd) -> Cloth (Weaver, in Weaver's Hut)
Barley (Thresher) -> Ale (Brewer, in Brewery)
Dyes (Fuller) -> Manuscripts (Scrivener, in Monastery)
Wood(Lumberjack)
Stone (Quarryman)
Salt
Cotton(Cotton Planter)->Cloth
Fur
Weapons
Armor
Gold
Silver
Iron Ore
Tools
Wine
Wheat(Farmer) -> Bread (Baker)
Horses
Cows
Sheep
Fish
Food

Specialty Goods:

Silk(?) -> Fine Cloth(Weaver)
Porcelain

Specialty goods will only be available through research. The first to research gets the Specialty and they will be the only ones to make the item unless they trade the tech or a spy steals it... yes there will be spies

Also, I plan on makeing some of the resouces work Similar to CIV4 in that you have to have Bonus source in order to make/harvest the resource. Also, there may be more than one way to abtain certain goods such as food. Either from Cows that make Cheese, Famers Wheat to make Bread, and Fisherman.

With this list of goods I will be working up a list of professions as well.

This list of Goods and Materials is very close to what I'm doing in the "1492: Global Colonization" mod. Here is a current working version.



As usually I'm ready to share my data with your mod.

Also, I plan on makeing some of the resouces work Similar to CIV4 in that you have to have Bonus source in order to make/harvest the resource.

Now I have all mineral resources only as Bonuses. They are Iron ore, Silver, Gold, Gems, Clay, Saltpeter, Coal and Stone deposits. Stones are also available on Peaks. Thus, the player must have available bonus to "harvest" mineral resources. When deposit is exhausted, the player lost access to this mineral resource.

 

[Kailric]

Now I have all mineral resources only as Bonuses. They are Iron ore, Silver, Gold, Gems, Clay, Saltpeter, Coal and Stone deposits. Stones are also available on Peaks. Thus, the player must have available bonus to "harvest" mineral resources. When deposit is exhausted, the player lost access to this mineral resource.

Thanks, KJ, yeah I am thinking of having two types of resources; Natural and Domestic. Domestic being wheat, barley, grapes, cows, sheep, horses, etc and these can be produced on what ever terrain is best suited for them or having the proper buildings. The Natural resources are as you describe above mostly and you actually have to have a Bonus resource in order to produce the goods.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

For cows and sheep, one thing I think would be interesting would be to have them be produced as a percentage of current cow/sheep stock. For example, one plot being worked by an unit with the Cattle Rancher profession would yield +4% Cows, yielding a minimum of 1.

 

[Kailric]

I been working some more on the list of Goods. Drjest2000, pointed out how important Cattle was so the list of goods reflects that. Once I get the list of goods developed I can start to work on what buildinds we will need and what units as well as other concepts such as Morale.

Notes and ideas:
-Gold for spending will be aquired through several means other than selling goods. Some buildings will be taxable. For instance the Tavern will automaticly sell Ale to build your units morale(Liberty Bell Production) and at the same time you gain a Tax bonus in gold for each unit consumed.
-Cattle, Sheep, and Horses will probably be created much like Horses are in Vanilla Col but wheat is required to produce them.
-Morale of your units will play a part in production much like "rebel sentiment". Peasants and such will gain a boost in morale from having Ale in your taverns and Nobles will get a morale boost from having Wine perhaps.
-There will be 4 types of Armor with Leather and Scale being Produced at the start and you must then research Chain and Plate.
-Bonus resources are the ones that require you to have access to the actual bonus in order to Produce the good.
-Invented Goods require you to invent the item and then you are the only one able to create it unless someone steals the technology or you trade the Tech. It will be very valuable in a trade.


Domestic
Cattle -> Hides -> Leather
Cattle -> Cheese -> Food
Cattle -> Meat
Sheep -> Wool -> Coats
Barley -> Ale
Vineyard -> Wine
Cotton -> Cloth
Wheat -> Bread -> Food
Fish -> Meat

Mined
Salt -> Meat -> Food
Ore -> Tools

Military
Horses

Tools -> Weapons

Leather -> Leather Armor

Leather -\
Tools-> Scale Armor


Leather -\
Tools -> Chain Armor


Chain -\
Leather ]-> Plate Armor
Tools -/

Production
Wood
Stone
Tools

Bonus Resources
Gold
Silver
Ivory
Furs
Spices

Invented Goods
Silk
Porcelain

 

[Androrc the Orc]

I been working some more on the list of Goods. Drjest2000, pointed out how important Cattle was so the list of goods reflects that. Once I get the list of goods developed I can start to work on what buildinds we will need and what units as well as other concepts such as Morale.

Notes and ideas:
-Gold for spending will be aquired through several means other than selling goods. Some buildings will be taxable. For instance the Tavern will automaticly sell Ale to build your units morale(Liberty Bell Production) and at the same time you gain a Tax bonus in gold for each unit consumed.
-Cattle, Sheep, and Horses will probably be created much like Horses are in Vanilla Col but wheat is required to produce them.
-Morale of your units will play a part in production much like "rebel sentiment". Peasants and such will gain a boost in morale from having Ale in your taverns and Nobles will get a morale boost from having Wine perhaps.
-There will be 4 types of Armor with Leather and Scale being Produced at the start and you must then research Chain and Plate.
-Bonus resources are the ones that require you to have access to the actual bonus in order to Produce the good.
-Invented Goods require you to invent the item and then you are the only one able to create it unless someone steals the technology or you trade the Tech. It will be very valuable in a trade.

If cattle, sheep and horses use land, they could not use wheat, as being produced on land would mean they would graze there, instead of eating stockpiled grain. And would be pretty nice to see taxes implemented in that way.

Domestic
Cattle -> Hides -> Leather
Cattle -> Cheese -> Food
Cattle -> Meat
Sheep -> Wool -> Coats
Barley -> Ale
Vineyard -> Wine
Cotton -> Cloth
Wheat -> Bread -> Food
Fish -> Meat

Mined
Salt -> Meat -> Food
Ore -> Tools

Military
Horses

Tools -> Weapons

Leather -> Leather Armor

Leather -\
Tools-> Scale Armor


Leather -\
Tools -> Chain Armor


Chain -\
Leather ]-> Plate Armor
Tools -/

Production
Wood
Stone
Tools

Bonus Resources
Gold
Silver
Ivory
Furs
Spices

Invented Goods
Silk
Porcelain

Sounds good. Are there graphics for all of those (buttons and yield icons)?

 

[orlanth]

Those sounds interesting. But if it takes multiple steps to make Food, the most basic resource in the game, won't it become very hard to get new colonies started, & make the AI have problems planning for food production?

 

[Kailric]

Those sounds interesting. But if it takes multiple steps to make Food, the most basic resource in the game, won't it become very hard to get new colonies started, & make the AI have problems planning for food production?

Thats a good point. I am wanting to "simulate" life in a medieval city somewhat, but not to the point where its more of a pain than a game though. Still, food was very vital then and there was constant fear of famines and plaques. I will just have to balance the game around it and figure things out in play testing.

It would be neat if there was several types of food; meat, bread, cheese, fruit and then you get a morale boost depending on how many types of food your Towns have access too. Kinda like the game "Stronghold". I may look into doing something like that as well.

 

[CivTycoon]

I do have the game StrongHold 2 and I been meaning to reinstall it (which I am doing now) to get inspiration. Post more later...

Hey, that's cool! I have that game [Stronghold 2], too.

I have a few suggestions/ideas of my own for this mod...

Mainly, on the topic of Barbarian conversion, I should point out that, beginning in 1054 with the Great Schism, there were two Christianities in Europe, Catholic ("Universal") and Orthodox Christianity, with Catholicism encompassing Western Europe to Poland and Hungary, and Eastern Orthodoxy being the prevalent religions in Russia and Byzantium.
So, perhaps there could be an inherent rivalry in this Medieval Col Mod between different Civs as they try to convert the "Northern Barbarians" to their type of Christianity.
Militarily speaking, this could spawn, for your mod, a plethora of orders of Christian Knights, such as the Knights Templar, the Knights Hospitaller, the Knights of Santiago, or perhaps all coalesce into one special unit for this mod, the "Crusader", out of which will spawn a special colony called a "Crusader State". Historical examples of this include the Kingdom of Jerusalem and the Principality of Antioch.
Suggestively, I would like to see such a Crusader State colony take root in this mod as it may have the dynamics of an Overseas Colony in Civ IV, yet will have same tone as a colony and perhaps be subject to a few special rules that deal with the topic of Crusades.
To make the dynamics of religion in this mod even more complex would be the introduction of Islam in 600 C.E., and this may be a new of source of rivalry if an Islamic civ conquers enough land to border the Northern Barbarians and thus be a source of religious competition in converting them.
Even furthering the complexity of religion, if you plan to extend the timeline of your mod the the Protestant Reformation, then some previously Catholic civs may revolt and turn Protestant, thus acting as a fourth source of competition for the conversion of barbarians.

And don't forget the jousting tournaments! Perhaps one could build a Jousting Tournament in a city, or even while besieging a castle (there are historical cases of that instance happening) to keep your people and soldiers happy, though they may cost you a unit or two of Knights, due to the dangerous nature of the tournaments (the Catholic church in many instances tried to ban or make safer this practice, usually by issuing regulations stating that the lances ought to be made of wood, and the saddles ought to be flat so a Knight could cleanly be swept off of it.).

Plus, Northern Barbarian invasions, mainly Viking, may add to the gameplay of this mod. Be sure to add an event or two with Harald Hadrada conquering England (and being shot through the eye at Stamford Bridge), or the Ivar the Boneless and his Heathen Army conquering Ireland and Brittania.

A few leaders I would definitely suggest for this mod:

Charlemagne
Pope Urban II
Frederick Barbarossa
The Hammer (a.k.a Lord Barclay)
Tamerlane/Timur and the Timurid Civ (may be counted as a barb civ waiting to be converted)
Saladin
Richard I (a horrible king by my standards - PM me if you want to find out why)
Ivan IV (considered the founder of the Russian Empire)
Ambrosius Aurelianus (styled as the historical figure behind the legend of King Arthur)
William the Conqueror
King Alfred the Great (defended the Kingdom of Wessex from the Vikings)

A few civs I would suggest for this mod:

The Most Serene Republic of Venice
Kingdom of Jerusalem
Principality of Antioch
Kingdom of Castille
Kingdom of Aragon
Holy Roman Empire
Kingdom of Oultrejourdain (beyond the Jordan, a land that was largely unknown and unexplored by the Frankish Crusaders. Nonetheless, this did not stop a couple of French crusaders from a establishing a Crusader State in the region)

I think that's about it.

 

[CivTycoon]

Also, I think the Silk Road from Cathay to Medieval Europe should play an instrumental role in this mod, mostly as a source of goods, especially gunpowder.
And from the Silk Road an invasion of Mongols/Timurids/Tartars come.

Finally, because of the similarities between Feudal Japan and Feudal Europe in this era, this mod could include a separate map of Japan with different units (samurai, and shugyosha, who where wondering swordsmen seeking jobs as legitimate samurai) and possibly a slightly different list of Goods, and of course different events and a different look for cities and castles.

This may go a bit far, as you will have to redesign everything from flags to the map itself, but I think the rewards reaped will outweigh the cost of making it. Think of it as an expansion to this Middle Ages Mod.

 

[Kailric]

Also, I think the Silk Road from Cathay to Medieval Europe should play an instrumental role in this mod, mostly as a source of goods, especially gunpowder.
And from the Silk Road an invasion of Mongols/Timurids/Tartars come.

Finally, because of the similarities between Feudal Japan and Feudal Europe in this era, this mod could include a separate map of Japan with different units (samurai, and shugyosha, who where wondering swordsmen seeking jobs as legitimate samurai) and possibly a slightly different list of Goods, and of course different events and a different look for cities and castles.

This may go a bit far, as you will have to redesign everything from flags to the map itself, but I think the rewards reaped will outweigh the cost of making it. Think of it as an expansion to this Middle Ages Mod.

Thanks for your input CivTycoon, all interesting Ideas. I am currently working on putting the Trade Goods, Buildings, Bonus Resources, Professions and such on that level of things together. After I have a working Economic model and a lot of the art in the game I may release a version so that maybe others can help by adding more art and such.

I will be replacing "Europe" with ideas such as "Fairs" as fairs where huge back then. Instead of traveling to Europe you will be traveling to the Fair. With your idea of the "Silk Road" that could add another possiblity of trade as the player sends his merchants to the west for spices and silk and other rare goods.

 

[CivTycoon]

It has come to my head that a potential profession for this mod could be that of the Troubadour.
The question is, from where/whom does he [the Peasant] learn it from?

 

[Kailric]

It has come to my head that a potential profession for this mod could be that of the Troubadour.
The question is, from where/whom does he [the Peasant] learn it from?

Probably in a Theater. There could be at least two upgrades starting with a "Stage" for performances and then a Theater. I plan on adding in my Journeyman mod so they could learn the skill just by working in the Theater. What would be the purpose of the Theater is the question? I plan on adding a morale system so it could improve morale. Also I plan on adding other means to gather revenue perhaps through taxes and such so maybe a Theater could help generate revenue and or just spread culture.

 

[CivTycoon]

Probably in a Theater. There could be at least two upgrades starting with a "Stage" for performances and then a Theater. I plan on adding in my Journeyman mod so they could learn the skill just by working in the Theater. What would be the purpose of the Theater is the question? I plan on adding a morale system so it could improve morale. Also I plan on adding other means to gather revenue perhaps through taxes and such so maybe a Theater could help generate revenue and or just spread culture.

Perhaps it can do all of those things, making it an essential building in the mod, and the having Shakespeare's Globe Theatre as the most powerful of all of the theaters.

 

[Kailric]

Well, in what little time I been having to spare lately(worked 65.5 hours this week on the job) I still been working on this. Things should prolly slow down in a week or two though. I have made a lot of progress and have also been reading up on all things Medieval.

What I been working on mostly lately is a couple things. One being Merchants and Pedlers. After you found your first village you want be able to build Caravans (Wagon Trains) but instead take on the Pedler profession. Pedlers have one cargo space and basicly turns your unit into a wagon train. With the proper tech you'll be able to take on the Merchant profession which simply upgrades the profession to have 2 cargo spaces. At some point I may make it so units can gain Promotions that give them bonuses to trade.

Also, there will be at least 3 types of cities you can found. Starting with the village which will only have a few basic buildings namely; baker's house, carperter's house, and blacksmith's house. Villages will be able to be built up into full fledge prosperous medieval cities.

You'll also be able to convert units to the Monk profession and found Monasteries. Monasteries will be your scientific hot spots so to speak sense during the medieval age most of the progress in science and technology was done here. They will have a bonus to research and will start with different buildings such as the Wine Maker's house and Ale Distiller's house. And maybe produce some specialty item.

The Castle will be another type of City. With this I will bring in my Forts mode and work it in in some way. Castles will be similar to Villages but will start with defense bonuses and take some time to build. You will have to research the proper techs in order to build Castles also.

Anyway, looking forward to getting this done enough to post an upload

 

[Kailric]

Been working hard on this mod lately. Told myself I can not get Civ5 until I upload the first release

Most of the coding is done just having to merge in Graphics.

I want to have different victory conditions based on what Leader you choose. I have been studying Medieval times and have learned so many things. In colonization you had the "King" in the Medieval ages you had the "Pope". For the most part Popes where at odds with the Kings and Emperors over different matters and lots of times the Popes would start wars to fight Kings that would not go along with their ideals. So, In the Middle Ages mod you will have to keep the Pope happy with Tithes and doing his bidding if not he will have his own little set of "punishments" or may even call for a Crusade against you.

The Mod will begin in the Year 476, when the last Roman Emperor is removed from power. To win an Emperor Victory your goal will be to unit the warring tribes and Proclaim your right to be Emperor. At this point the remaining Free Kings may unite against you and depending on how well you treated the Pope he may also join in on one side or the other.

Or maybe similar to the case of the Byzantine Empire you must prepare for and in the end Defeat the Rising Ottoman Empire as it was their sack of Rome that ended the Eastern Roman Empire and thus ended the period in history we call the Middle Ages and ushered in the Renaissance.

Also, there will be another Victory Condition.. to be the First to Discover the New World. Much like Civ4 where you build your space ship you will have to build your "Expedition" much like Columbus did. After a certain point all Civs will be able to start building their Expedition. Once your Expedition is substantial you can send it forth in hopes of Discovering the New World. Its chance of survival will depend on your level of technology, what founding fathers you have, how many ships and how much provisions you have given them.

Anyway, there is some of my ideas on this so far.

 

[CivTycoon]

Here are my suggestions:

Maybe, instead of just keeping the Pope happy (the Charlemagne mod was too easy) you can constantly fight the Pope over such issues as investiture (the right to appoint Bishops over districts) or marriages/divorces (much like King Henry VIII), or even appoint an "anti-Pope" and declare the Papal Pope to be a false Pope!
This is only just a recipe for more fun, because if you do that then every other state that follows the Pope will almost instantly declare war. Your civilization could also harbor a Great Prophet, Martin Luther, and your civ could be the first Protestant civ, thereby starting the Thirty Years War.

You could also attempt to make an Archbishop of yours a Cardinal and place him to the College of Cardinals, the clerical body from which the Pope was originally elected from. In this way, if your Cardinal within the College of Cardinals gets elected as Pope, it will be extremely beneficial to you as he will favor you and your civ over other civs.

And, as a further option, you could request the Pope for a Crusade against the Holy Land and colonize the Holy Land [Palestine] by creating Crusader states, which will function much like Overseas Colonies in Vanilla Civ. Or you could start your civ as a Crusader State.

These are all just suggestions, but I think that, if implemented, they will work (and they'll be pretty fun)!

However, I do like your idea for discovering the New World as a victory option, and building an Expedition sounds pretty cool. But what will the various parts of the Expedition be? You will have to include a sort of "Stasis Chamber" and all the other parts that make up the Expedition/"Spaceship".