tjedge1-
A few more ideas and questions...
1) Someone mentioned Wraith's or something before and I think that would be an awesome idea for Mordor. Unless you guys figured out how to make the Nazgul work.
2) I also think Rohan should be available. They could be similiar to Gondor except in later stages have superior mounted units.
I hope I'm not repeating things you guys already discussed.
3) Also, couldn't Oliphaunts be a strategic resource for Mumakil or do you plan to use another resource. Or even use Mumakil.
4) Is Isengard going to use men as well as orc? I thought I read somewhere that the Dunlendings kinda helped Saruman with harrassing Rohan.
5) I can see seperate empires for Dwarves and Elves. But I still want a multiplayer version that has fewer civs. But as more earlier post said, I want more civs for more single player games. The Locked Alliance would make that a really cool game.
6) If there is a Corsair civ (or if they're combined with Southrons) then would they get a superior ship in some way? Maybe not.
7) Any chance on a Dunaden Ranger unit? Maybe to replace the scout for Arnor and maybe Gondor? Or just a quick unit of some kind? Even more accurate a third age upgrade to scouts?
1.)Wraiths could work, even if we did have the 7 Nazgul
.
2.) 99.9% chance of Rohan being in there.
Its not a problem (lets get it out of your system early
)
3.) You dont want to open that can of worms! But we decided it would be unfair to have the Mumakil (Oliphants) as a strategic resource. We would have to make their appearance ratio stellar, to make sure one out of many civs gets it, and what if someone chooses not to play the game with the Southrons? You have a completely useless strategic resource. The Mumakil rider wont require any resource, we are taking a tip from Firaxis on this one.
4.) Well, Mrtns idea was to make Isengard only able to build 1-4 cities (conceivably all part of Isengard not really cities) It would get stronger defenders because of this. Early on it would have all-men units, (plus in regicide, a killer king) yet later it would only have men as the defenders, (the Hobbits were getting man-food from the guardhouses in TT). And Orcs as the offensive units.
5.) I would have no problem with a Multi-player version with less civs. Could be played singular, of course, and it give us the option to go against the grind and give LotR fans two types of games, one more generic and one more specific.
6.) I was thinking that Umbar would be part of the Southrons, and sure, a UU corsair boat unit wouldnt hurt anything.
7.) Sounds very possible to me. As Mrtn is crusading for, (and what I at least agree with) is that communication and map trading should not be allowed. A third age explorer\fighter unit would be awesome, and if give Arnor more of a fallen empire unit line, for the later ages, it would be especially helpful.
Doc M-
Sorry it took me so late, I'm not at home now so I don't know how often I'll post...
OK you convinced me about the worker actions, now about the dragon that PCHighway mentioned earlier, I could make him even better, but for what icon would you use it in civilopedia... a tech, maybe beastinery?
That would be great
! (I am sorry its taking me so long to reply also) As for where it would come in, I couldnt say. Perhaps around the time of Tŭrin Turambar, it could be a tech\event type of thing. Maybe specific to Mordor. That would allow for a cheaper offensive unit, or something.
SoCalian-
@PCH: Dude, you forgot to put links to my city lists in the overview. If I can figure out how, I will post links to them. Of course though, you could always do it if you feel up to it. It would be better though If you showed me how to link to specific posts. There is no need to clog up the thread, a PM would work. Eventually though I will try to get up a city list of every civ, along with Kings, title, great leaders, toggle flags, and all the other stuff for the civs. But, thats for later on when we have all of the civs decided upon.
Clogging up thread is what I do best!
I was on a time limit dammit
! I think Mrtn already told Mithadan, but all you have to do is click on the post number, at the bottom of each post. Next to report this post to moderator then a new window will emerge, simply copy\paste its url where you want it to be. If you make a url list, you could probably get Celeborn to edit it in.
Also, if you intend to make so much stuff, it might be better to put in a .txt format, and we can post a download to it, although perhaps it should only be done for the
final lists, and I might add, we dont even have the final civilization listing.
Sir John-
I think Il make a proposal for a tech tree today ot tomorrow..
@mrtn: No offence but there is something about your tech tree I dont like.. cant put my finger on it tough.. Well, Ill make a suggestion soon..
About the mine: I agree that arial wiew are not so important but its nice to have but it shouldnt be a priority.. Civilopedia will never be a problem with this mod.. Well just use the encyclopedia of arda and other resources as well as our self.. I dont see the civilopedia as problem at all..
Civilopedia?!??! Not a problem? What have you been smoking! By the end of the alpha version alone, I assure you we will have 150+ units in the game, many of which will be specific to certain civilizations. And I guarantee at least 125 of those units will not have a entry in the Encyclopedia of Arda. Also, if we are going to copy past anything and add it to the final MOD, we are going to ask there permission first, its the honorable thing to do. I also believe they wont really care one way or another.
Doc M-
MINING alows to mine
PRIMITIVE MASONRY light walls (maybe wooden)
ROAD BUILDING alows to build road
FARMING alows to irrigate
BRONZE WORKING maybe appears copper, I dont know what we agreed about this
IRON WORKING appears iron
ADVANCED MASONRY strong walls (maybe rock walls)
THE WHEEL horses
These are some ideas that I could think of
Suggestions are welcomed and critics. I couldnt think of any religion, so I put Valaquenta and Music of Ainur.
I think we are just going to assume the units used copper, and it was easy to find. This way we dont have to break up the Tolkien doctrine with more heresy
. The religion might be a problem, but we will need to put something in there... The gods did help out the Elves in the beginning and later, may be we find something like that. Once again, I will arise my displeasure of pottery, found in both Mrtns and your tech trees. Why pottery? When the elves came to Middle-earth they knew how to make ships and swords, when the men met the elves they had already migrated, and probably already knew how to make this, if not the Elves surely taught them. I dont think it is a big enough event to make a tech.
AlcTrv-
I still like Napalm. But I don't want to do actual work.... it's not my strong suit
Valaquenta-->Silmarillion?
Also, some techs
Ring Craft
Lesser Rings of Power
Elven Rings, Dwarven Rings, Rings of Men
The One Ring
Smelting, Mithril Working....
Archery, Long bow, Crossbow
Breeding (Uruk-hai, orcs, etc)
Rangers
Just Brain-Storming
What are you, some type of pyromaniac
. Valaquenta, is the account of the Valar. Thats a lot of rings, and could all be summed up with ring making or as you put it ring craft. Which I might add, it was not that they knew how to make rings, its that these rings could contain magic.
No crossbow, ever.
Why a tech called rangers? Thats a UU, you cant research rangers
. Perhaps Tracking or something of a similar vein.
mrtn-
I don't like the way "Organised Military" leads to 5 (!) other techs, that's at least 2 too many, imo. And the Music of the Ainur is way too early. That's like researching "Evolve Monkey into Man" on Earth.
I think that Map trading and Communications trading should come very late (in the third era, or something). If the Southrons doesn't send a guy up to the Shire, they don't have any reason to be able to talk to the hobbits.
I think Doc M was trying to break up the military lines, for instance, instead of studying advanced military and getting archers, siege-craft, main defender, and the main offensive unit, you would have to study each on separately. Which might be a good idea, but on a lesser scale. For instance, the archers\ siege-craft\ and main offenders, can all be separate techs. Yet I do agree, they should be more spread out.
Agree with map trading
.
Doc M-
OK, someone should try this multiple techtree before we make techtrees for each civilization. Could someone make list of units that have been made so far that we can use for mod. Things will be very easier.
There is a text file you can download
Here
Or for a word-pad document (better version), you can get one
Here.
All of them specify what unit to use, no made up ones.
About Multiple tech trees, if It is what I think it is, it isn't what you think. We should test it out before hand, and we will still need a generic tech tree.
SoCalian-
I'm starting to think it is a bit foolish to start making a tech tree before we have everything finished. Pehaps we should finish everything else they start working on the tech tree. When we are finished with everthing else then we will know what we need. At this point we only know about half of it. This would make things a lot easier. I feel that we should strike starting the tech tree a a foolish mistake, but still keep the work. This is the order that I think we should continue work while still keeping in mind the tech tree, and remembering that the ability to have seperate tech trees has been added:
Finalize the random map civs(with compleate lists, flags, ect...)
Finalize Units and UUs
Finalize Governments
Finalize Terrain
Other various details(citizens, Espionage, general settings...)
Tech Tree
Fine Tuneing
Beta Testing
Civilopedia(While testing)
Changes based on testing
Scenarios
Thats not a good idea, the main reason the generic units aren't finished, is because of shield cost and technology. The tech tree is the entire framework of the Mod. Everything else should be added
to it, not the other way around. Governments should be placed in their most convenient\historical spot. Yes, the tree looks daunting? So what
. You cant do any of the things you mentioned with out a basic tech tree. Forget about the civ-specific part for now, we can add that later.
This is how we go about it. We converge on the tech trees skeleton. Once we agree on a final tree, we start to add things to it, that we might have missed. For instance:
Lumber working
Cost: 8
Perquisite: None
Enables: Clear forest
Buildings: Mill
Units: Light Infantry1*
*I think we should add a generic light infantry line, one that doesnt require iron or any resources. It would be cheaper to build but far less effective than the major units.
.
