Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (5)

[Sir John]

Originally posted by mrtn
Techs for most of the buildings:

Tech ID #: 38
Name: Royal House
Era: 2nd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Palace
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Tech ID #: 39
Name: Water Supply
Era: 2nd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Aqueduct
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Tech ID #: 40
Name: City Defenses
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Keep
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Tech ID #: 41
Name: City Guard
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: City Guard
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Tech ID #: 42
Name: Coinage
Era: 1st
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Tavern
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Tech ID #: 43
Name: Bow Saw
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Sawmill
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Tech ID #: 44
Name: Temple Lore
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Temple
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Tech ID #: 45
Name: Literature
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Library
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Tech ID #: 46
Name: Merchants Guilds
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Merchant Guild
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Tech ID #: 47
Name: Sea Trading
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Trading Port
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Tech ID #: 48
Name: Kings treasury
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Treasury
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

Im not sure I like this... Buildings should mostly be integrated into other techs and I dont like having a single tech for only one building... Some of theese might work if we change their names..
I especialy dont like Temple Lore, Sea trading and treasury...

 

[SoCalian]

I like PCH's techs for the most part. Looks like were getting along with the techs pretty well. Hurry up though I have 3-5 new city lists hat I can do. Vanyar, Noldor, Sindar, Ossiriand, Morgoth, Bree, Hollin, and Eagles. Wait actually thats 8. I can also produce revised lists for pretty much all the rest of the lists that we currently have. We should end this thread when the tech tree is done. Then go on to the civs. Hopefully I will be finished reading the Silmarilion by then.

 

[PCHighway]

SoCalian-
I like PCH's techs for the most part. Looks like were getting along with the techs pretty well.

'PCHs' Techs? Don't you get it yet . Mrtn and I are collaborating to bring you these techs, for the limited time offer of 3days for 20.

SoCalian- Hurry up though I have 3-5 new city lists hat I can do. Vanyar, Noldor, Sindar, Ossiriand, Morgoth, Bree, Hollin, and Eagles. Wait actually thats 8. I can also produce revised lists for pretty much all the rest of the lists that we currently have. We should end this thread when the tech tree is done. Then go on to the civs. Hopefully I will be finished reading the Silmarilion by then.

... A civ for the Eagles? A Civ for Bree? You know these two aren't needed, especially for the Random Map version. How about this, find all the unimportant civilizations, and start to make a barbarian list for them. Don't worry about organization (for culture groups) you will need to wait till after we choose which civs go in which culture groups. How about that ?

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by Fier Canadien And, as I see, we're starting to have "alot" of techs, especially in Age 3, it seems. If you get on like this for two more weeks, there won't be any place to put all them in the sci. advisor's window.

Don't worry. After we've done those we think are needed we'll check what we have, how many in each era and so on. And we're not only after to fill the advisor screen, my goal is that every tech should give you something concrete.

Originally posted by Sir John


Im not sure I like this... Buildings should mostly be integrated into other techs and I dont like having a single tech for only one building... Some of theese might work if we change their names..
I especialy dont like Temple Lore, Sea trading and treasury...

[SARCASM]Thank you for that constructive and detailed post. [/SARCASM] If you think you have better names, please post them.


As PCH posted we have done these by chat. The last bunch took us three hours work, if we had wrangled about names and stuff in this thread it would have taken three weeks.

SoCalian, if you feel you are drowning in techs, please follow PCHighways suggestion and make a barbarian list. Each in his own way, and so on.

 

[tjedge1]

Originally posted by Fier Canadien

And, as I see, we're starting to have "alot" of techs, especially in Age 3, it seems. If you get on like this for two more weeks, there won't be any place to put all them in the sci. advisor's window.

I personally like a lot of techs as it slows the game a little and keeps any particular tech from making the first civ to reach it suddenly become overun with new improvements and units, and thus making them unfairly more poweful for a while.
:soldier: vs
Keep up the good work
It may be to late to mention this but I am expermenting with making a mod and when I finish it I will try to be more helpful in the future. As in less back patting and chattering and more ...uhm...useful.

 

[SoCalian]

Hey I have a good reason for having Bree, And I thought up the perfect way to impliment the Eagles. I'm not drowning in the techs, It's like I have to pee and there aren't any bathrooms close. I'll try to get a Barbarian list. The only problem is trying to fill up the exactally 72 lines required.

 

[Sir John]

Tech ID #: 38
Name: Royal House
Era: 2nd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Palace
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ: Change tech to royalty wich would perhaps gibe royalty as a gov..

Tech ID #: 39
Name: Water Supply
Era: 2nd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Aqueduct
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ: This building should be worked into a "constructiuon" tech

Tech ID #: 40
Name: City Defenses
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Keep
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ: What does the keep do?

Tech ID #: 41
Name: City Guard
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: City Guard
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ: OK I guess...

Tech ID #: 42
Name: Coinage
Era: 1st
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Tavern
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ:Make the tech named bartering or put the tavern into a trade tech...

Tech ID #: 43
Name: Bow Saw
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Sawmill
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ: Ok I guess...

Tech ID #: 44
Name: Temple Lore
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Temple
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ: As I said before all religoius stuff should be civ spesisifc...

Tech ID #: 45
Name: Literature
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Library
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ: Ok but the "great library" should be here as well.. I think that the library in the white city should be the Great librarary but thats another discussion...

Tech ID #: 46
Name: Merchants Guilds
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Merchant Guild
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ: This sould also be in a trade or bartering tech...

Tech ID #: 47
Name: Sea Trading
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Trading Port
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ: ISnt three ports to much.. See tech 27 and 28...

Tech ID #: 48
Name: Kings treasury
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): none
Buildings and Wonders: Treasury
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

SJ: This should be in a currency tech...

Is this detailed enough for u?

 

[Sir John]

Originally posted by SoCalian
Hey I have a good reason for having Bree, And I thought up the perfect way to impliment the Eagles. I'm not drowning in the techs, It's like I have to pee and there aren't any bathrooms close. I'll try to get a Barbarian list. The only problem is trying to fill up the exactally 72 lines required.

Bree as a civ?? They are ONE city.. Please explain.. ANd how will u make the eagles come in a random map without a Gaia civ..

If we have a Gaia civ they should be in a locked war against evrybody and have Radagast as their leader..

 

[mrtn]

Ok, some comments on techs not posted by me or PCH:
23 Aüle's Lore
And you find "Shrine of Aüle" where in the buildings list? Delete this tech. The dwarves' temple will look different, but it doesn't need to have a new name. It's still a temple. This goes in under tech # 14.

24 SoCalian, don't steal my tech name! As PCH posted, working should come first (#6) and mining as #24.

25 Agree with PCH here, three Mithril techs are unnecessary.

26 Boat Construction
A first naval unit (a small boat) comes at tech# 10: Sailing. This makes tech #26 redundant.

27 Fishing
Fish comes at tech #10 already. The Fishery (as that Dock improvement is called) comes at tech# 18. This makes tech #27 also redundant.

28 Military boat building
Well, we haven't decided any list of naval units yet, but I can tell you that any ship with a movement of 1(!) is not gonna go down well with me. We're trying to come up with techs now, not new units.
This means I ignore these ship ideas for now.
I don't like this tech name. It sounds too modern (like a 19th century tech). Also you don't fight with boats, you fight with ships.

Hey, you forgot tech #29! It goes 28, 30!

Of course we'll have 30 Naval warfare, though, as I said, I'll ignore the unit idea.

31 and 32 (Numenorean ship techs) I think the Numenoreans can get their units at the normal ship techs. It's just that they get better ships. Thus we don't have to fill the tree with techs that only one civ can get.

33 Rafting
I'm against Dale as a civ. I'm against raft as a unit. Guess what? I'm against this tech. BTW we don't have any raft graphics.

34 and 35 (Uruk and Olog Breeding)
I agree with Fier Canadien here about the names. I think me and PCH will have another session to get tech names for the units. Hopefully we can then make generic names so that "Big soldier tech" gives both uruks and knights (not that knights and uruks will be at the same tech, but you hopefully get the idea).

36 Survival
The name here is a bit too dramatic, isn't it? Why not steal the name from tech 37, Tracking, and use it here? I think the "European Scout" recently posted would be an excellent scout unit for most of the civs. I'm not sure I agree that the scouts should need a tech, as that would steal the whole purpose from the expansionist trait. This tech, though, could be used for the "Explorer"-unit, as we won't have any conquistador-like units running around.
Second era in that case?

37 Tracking
The Ranger/Dunedain unit could use the graphics from the Arthurian Knight (with green civ colours). As I just stole this tech name (me and SoCalian, eh? ), this tech just turned into a "Uhm, we'll wait and see"-tech.

I attach a text-file with all the techs that's been posted up til now. I haven't modded anything in it.
I'll have to part my post, it's too long! Damn.

 

[mrtn]

Now; Sir John's comments on the tech's I posted last time:

SJ: Change tech to royalty wich would perhaps gibe royalty as a gov..

I disagree. Royal House sounds more ME IMO.

SJ: This building should be worked into a "constructiuon" tech

I disagree.

SJ: What does the keep do?

Check the buildings list. j/k, it's a civil defense.

SJ:Make the tech named bartering or put the tavern into a trade tech...

This was PCH's idea too. My reasoning is that "Bartering" has been done forever. Coinage and Tavern hasn't.

SJ: As I said before all religoius stuff should be civ spesisifc...

I disagree with this. It's too much work, too little gain, compared to just use different graphics.

SJ: Ok but the "great library" should be here as well.. I think that the library in the white city should

be the Great librarary but thats another discussion...

The GL wonder is called "Mathom House", so that makes your comment irrelevant in this case. We'll start to think about techs for the wonders soon.

SJ: This sould also be in a trade or bartering tech...

If we find we have too many techs we can do something like this.

SJ: ISnt three ports to much.. See tech 27 and 28...

About 27 and 28, see my reasoning above. As for three ports, this is agreed upon in the buildings list.

SJ: This should be in a currency tech...

Well, the "currency" techs we have now comes in the 1st era. This building comes in the 3rd. I see what you mean, but do you see that this is a problem?

Is this detailed enough for u?

Yes, this is detailed enough for me. You can't just say "This sucks", you have to say "This sucks, because...". Otherwise I get peeved.
I hope you guys get where I mean "I disagree about a name/property here" and where I mean "I don't want this thing in the mod", if not just ask.

SoCalian: The bathroom's being used. There should be 76 barbarian names, not 72. This is 15 per culture group, and 1 generic "Barbarians". If you don't find 76 this is not a problem, just use names many times.

 

[Sir John]

Mrtn: I think u are very pessemistic...
About the civ spesisifc religois techs its not all about the graphics.. Its more about the name... Just a simple Temple is simply too boring... Civ spesisifc techs will give loads of flavour to the game...

I might agree on royal house but it should at least give roylty\monarchy as a gov...

And what this about making techs for wonders later?? Whats wrong with making one tech give more the one thing???

 

[SoCalian]

Originally posted by Sir John


Bree as a civ?? They are ONE city.. Please explain.. ANd how will u make the eagles come in a random map without a Gaia civ..

If we have a Gaia civ they should be in a locked war against evrybody and have Radagast as their leader..

Umm... actually there were four towns in the sort of city-state thingy known as Bree. And as for the Eagles.. like I said before, I will explain when we get there.

 

[Doc M]

I don't know enough about this Barbarian thing and I'm sorry if this question sounds incredibly stupid, plus, I know I shouldn't be posting things that are not related to tech tree, but, there will be some barbarian spiders (like those who attacked Bilbo)?

BTW, PCHighway, hope you won't comment this because of the stupidity of my post

After this post, I will ignore anything not related to the Tech tree.
Unless it’s someone asking for general information.
Unless it’s related to crossbows.
Unless the post is ingenious of incredibly stupid, in which case I can't help myself from commenting.

 

[SoCalian]

Hey thanks Doc M I'll add Spiders to the barbarian List. If you guys can think of any more just post them, or PM them to me that way I can add them to the list.

 

[SoCalian]

Here we go. I have compiled a Barbarian list with exactly 76 entries. They are organised by culture. The number next to the name of each culture indicates how many are in that oarticular culture. So here it is:

DWARVES* 5
Gonnhirrim
Khazâd
Naugrim
Longbeard
Petty-dwarven

ELVES* 26
Quendi
Avari
Calaquendi
Dark Elven
Deep Elven
Edhel
Eldalië
Golodhrim
Golug
Grey-elven
Light-elven
Moriquendi
Nandor
Sea-elven
Silvan
Teleri
Úmanyar
Falathrim
Galadhrim
Green-elven
Gwaith-i-Mírdain
Laiquendi
Lindar
Mírdain
Wood-elven

ENTS* 3
Entings
Entwives
Onodrim

MEN* 19
Drúedain
Drughu
Drûgs
Northmen
Oghor-hai
Púkel-men
Wild Men
Woses
Balchoth
Beornings
Drúedain
Éothéod
Forodwaith
Haladin
Halethrim
Variags
Wainriders
Whiteskins
Woodmen

AINUR* 2
Valar
Maiar

ORCS* 6
Glamhoth
Goblin
Yrch
Hobgoblins
Snaga
Uruk-hai

HOBBITS* 7
Banakil
Halfling
Kuduk
Periannath
Fallohides
Harfoots
Stoors

OTHER* 8
Barrow-wights
Ogre
Olog-hai
Stone-giants
Torog
Troll
Spider
Stone-Troll

And here is the file.

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by Sir John
Mrtn: I think u are very pessemistic...
About the civ spesisifc religois techs its not all about the graphics.. Its more about the name... Just a simple Temple is simply too boring... Civ spesisifc techs will give loads of flavour to the game...

I might agree on royal house but it should at least give roylty\monarchy as a gov...

And what this about making techs for wonders later?? Whats wrong with making one tech give more the one thing???

The thing I meant about the wonders is that we haven't even started to think about those. Some of them will maybe/probably be incorporated in some of the techs we have now, but it's easier to start in one corner of the puzzle, don't you think? We'll do the wonders. Be patient.

I disagree with you about the religious techs. I fear it'll be throwing pearls for swine. Or, rather, creating pearls for swine. Or, to quote a Swedish saying: "Much screaming for little wool, said the shrew who shaved the pig."

I don't have a problem with giving more than one thing per tech (if those things feel natural coming from that tech). I have a problem with techs that give nothing. I don't want the tech tree being filled with "Philosophy", if you see what I mean.

SoCalian: The thing with the 76 are that 15 will be near each culture group. So, as we have it now... 15 Barbarians will be near the hobbits, 15 near the Dwarves, 15 near the humans, 15 near the elves and 15 near the "bad guys".
So just making a list of 76 wont work. I think that it would not be a good idea to put all the "elven barbarians" near the elves, it's better to have the "elven barbarians" plague the orcs, the "orc barbarians" plague the elves, something like that.

 

[SoCalian]

@mrtn: I know that mrtn. We could easily arange it that way. When I put them into groups I didn't mean that was what culture they would bother, but rather what culture they were from. They can be aranged after the cultural groups are figured out.

 

[Adler17]

SoCalian, some of the names are only words in a different language for the same people. For example Periannath is the meaning of Halfling in the language of Gondor. And IIRC Quendi is not an elvish people but a language. So I suggest only taking ONE name for the same people. And we should keep the names of the tribes given by Tolkien, like Noldor, Teleri, Vanya, Sindarin, Green Elves.

Adler

 

[PCHighway]

Doc M-
I don't know enough about this Barbarian thing and I'm sorry if this question sounds incredibly stupid, plus, I know I shouldn't be posting things that are not related to tech tree, but, there will be some barbarian spiders (like those who attacked Bilbo)?

BTW, PCHighway, hope you won't comment this because of the stupidity of my post

Say no more my good man ! This post falls into the category of 'Someone asking for general information'. As mrtn has said, each of the culture groups, is more likely to run into certain barbarians. When playing as a Greek\Roman or some other Mediterranean civ, you are more likely to run into Phoenician barbarian raiding party, instead of a Olmec raiding party. If you look at the barbarian listings (under 'A Barbarian Chiefdom' in the civilizations tabs) you will see how all the different 'barbarian' are divided up. Like so:

[b][u]American-		European-[/b][/u]

Mayan			Saxon
Incan			Vandal
Cherokee		Goth
Anasazi			Angle
Teoihuacan		Magyar
Olmec			Khazak			
Zapotec			Iberian
Chehalis		Bulgar
Chinook			Alemanni
Apache			Burgundian
Illinois		Gepid
Inuit			Hun
Navajo			Jute
Carib			Marcomanni

It's basically hard coded, that certain civilizations\culture groups will get the barbarians that they are next to. As far as I know, it goes in the order of the culture groups, to a undefined period. So the top (first) is 'American' the second is 'European' the third is 'Mediterranean' fourth 'Mid East' and fifth 'Asian'.

SoCalian, go back and count the barbarians, I came up with more than 72. ( I got 76 including the last 'barbarian') Perhaps there is a difference in our versions? Also, Alder17 makes many good points. We can have repeat names in the barbarian listings. So if we need to fill an empty slot, we can just repeat the name of the barbarian name above.

Sir John, From my understanding, you don't understand the civ specific tech tree. You can't add a civ specific tech whenever you want. The civilization must start with a Non-Era tech in their 'free tech' box. Once they get this, they have follow a completely different tech line than the other civs. AfaIK.

Otherwise there would be no point of making the civ start with a 'non-era' tech, which the readme clearly states. Now there is one way, that your idea might be possible. But it would quintuple Celeborn’s workload. Perhaps in an updated version, but as it is now, it would be a waste of time, simply to add a few unique techs. .

 

[Sir John]

but if each of the civs start with a non era tech that is the basis for their religion then I dont really se the problem with having different religoius techs... But if noone agree with the different religoius techs then Ill back down...

Mrtn: Im also against having lots of "philosophy" But that I dont see as a problem...