Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (octa)

[tjedge1]

Isn't that the the part of the set they are using for RotK movie? I love that set it looks awesome.

 

[[Ant]Wimp]

no **** I cant wait till december 17th... Ill buy conquests monday or so, and Ill post my map.

 

[SoCalian]

Wait, weren't we working on civs just before I left? Why did we start working on the gen. settings?

P.S. I have Conquests

 

[mrtn]

We have 15 civs agreed on.
PCH started on the biq, and I suppose he started where he wanted, as he's doing the job.

 

[Sarevok]

ill be watching that opening day too.

I just rented LOTR: The return of the king for PS2 yesterday, and ive beaten it (already). It shows clips from the movie, and believe me, you cant wait to see it, its gonna rock.

 

[SoCalian]

What about city lists and the such?

 

[[Ant]Wimp]

we've skipped that for now...

 

[SoCalian]

Why? I wan't to make city lists

 

[sosco]

Hey everybody,

I'm following progress on this huge mod campaign and I just can't wait for finale. What are you doing here (everybody) is great and thanx to Celeborn on starting everything.

Couple of threads back RRnut asked if some one insert marshes in his map. Well I have done that. The problem is that I can only save it as biq map. And the other problem is I don't know how to up load it. Any sugestions??

 

[The Last Conformist]

A map with marshes is necessarily a C3C map, and thus .biq. Nothing can be done about that.

 

[RRnut]

Hello sosco,

Thanks for doing the marshes. as for the fact that is .biq, i think that is what all conquests maps are, right? so that is all you would be able to save it as.

as for uploading, scroll to the bottom of the screen and click on upload file. then press browse and find the file on your HD. then press upload. then follow the directions there and put the link into a message.

The link should be something like this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/ (insert_filename_here)

don't forget to put _ underlines for any spaces, like I did when I first posted the map.

RRnut

 

[tjedge1]

Originally posted by SoCalian
Why? I wan't to make city lists

I don't see why you couldn't do any city lists, even if no one else is helping you. Somebody has to do it.

BTW: I am going to watch the extended version of Two Towers tonight. Looks like it has more battle scenes.

 

[SoCalian]

sosco- don't forget to put a volcano for Mt. Doom.

Alright tjedge, I'll make another one some time soon. Problem is I don't know which ones still need to be made. BTW where could I find the final Civ list?

 

[PCHighway]

embryodead-
Unbalanced? I think it's fine. Actually it doesn't seems surprising to me, the help files and such are always done by different people, who know only what has been told them.

Unbalanced; as if the help file was wrong, it would lead most custom games astray. I imagine most modders would follow the helpfile rather than do testing to come to their own conclusion. And if they did they would post their conclusion at cfc. There are only 30-40 people at Firaxis, I think they would employ a developer to write the helpfile.

embryodead-
They just made a mistake in the help file, you have to live with that Also, the percentage of number of players theory is actually more logical. BTW I bet you got 11 resources because you counted manually and missed one Civ3MT can't be wrong at this point, though it doesn't work with C3C yet.

I didn’t miss one. I just generated more than 15 different maps in the editor. If you have the ‘earth’ set at 4billion years old, you will get 10 iron resources. If you have it set 5billion you will get 12. No matter what size map you have. However, if you increase the number of players, the iron number goes up, correction it skyrockets to as much as 26. Doesn’t this clash with your theory? This is the part I can’t get past, not accepting if the helpfile is wrong or not. I’ll be the first to admit that the helpfile doesn’t account for about 4-6 resources, it could be because there is no room, or it could be because of the disappearance ratio, or it could be hardcoded. However, this makes no difference anymore. I’ve been influenced to vote for a 170 appearance ratio. It can always be changed, after all. As you say, a strategic resource loses it’s strategic-ness if there are so many. You would have to go into an enemy
nation’s territory and pillage 2 iron, instead of one.

embryodead-
In WH-Mod I used appearance ratios for luxuries to make some of them rare, while others remain "common".

But won’t this mess up the bonus resources chance of appearing? As you said earlier. I like your idea of making a special case for Mithril, however. How about an appearance ratio of 60, and a disappearance probability of 1000? I think all the other luxuries should have a disappearance probability of 800, except gold and gems which I think should be 700. But if we give no appearance ratio, then how can one of them disappear?

embryodead-
Did you fix all the rules that where transferred from PTW? I think we use the new rules, ie. 3x upgrades, 4 shields per gold etc.

I think the upgrade is ok, but I think wealth’s (shields per gold) should be lowered to 6. You only put a city on wealth if you have nothing better to build, or are low on money. In both cases you should get your times worth.

I decided on how we should work this out. Every third day I will introduce a new tab, sooner if possible. Today I will recap the older tabs, namely the Citizen tab. We have 8 new names to think of, for all the races Policemen and Civil Engineers. I also think that each race should get a better citizen than the others, except men. For instance: The Dwarves Civil Engineer should get +1 to construction. The Hobbits should get +1 happiness. The Elves should get +1 to science. The Evil Civilization should get +1 to corruption(policemen). The Dwarves and Elves are obvious, however the Evil civilizations and the Hobbits, ironically are interchangeable. But I think that Mordor should have better policemen, and lower corruption to represent their all-pervasiveness of their rule. You see Men betraying each other all the time, but rarely (if ever) see the generals of Mordor doing do.

These are the names I suggest:

[b][u]The Race	Policemen		Civil Engineer[/u][/b]
[b]Evil[/b]		Torturer*		Slave Driver	
[b]Men[/b]		Watchman		Architect
[b]Hobbits[/b]		Town Shirriff	Builder*
[b]Elves[/b]		Sentinel		Constructor
[b]Dwarves[/b]		Night Lookout*	Mason

* I recommend we change the Scientist to Advocate, and use Torturer here.
*Builder may sound stupid, but it fits as a small-town type of Civil Engineer.
*Night Lookout, also sounds a bit cheesy, but so do most alternatives.

I don't think we agreed on culture levels.
Original-
Fledgling
Weak
Fragile
Solid
Strong
Glorious

Suggested-
Weak
Frail
Firm
Steadfast
Strong
Mighty

SoCalian. I would be glad if you did the city lists, but I think we need to go over all the ‘shady’ ones. If we could divide them up into different segments, that would be great. Example I got from one of your city listings:

Civilization: Rohan
Actual Cities:
Edoras
Aldburg
Fortress, Refuges:
Helm’s Deep
Dunharrow
Fords of Isen
Geographic Locations:
Folde
Entwade
Sarn Gebir
West Emnet
East Emnet
Wold
Usable Other Names for the Above:
Westfold
Eastfold
Hornburg
Entwash
West-Mark
East-Mark
Other:
Meduseld

Obviously you don’t need all of these entries, but this is just to give you an example. We can rename them when we add them, for instance “Valley of the Entwash” or something along those lines. This way we can better make the decision of which rank to put them in, and which deserve to be in. I won’t hold it against you if you don’t want to do this.

 

[sosco]

Hey,

Thanx on info how to upload RRnut, and thanks for reminding me
(The Last Conformist) to add Volcano. Unfortunately i'm currently working, so I'll add volcano today and post it tomorrow. If there Is anything more I can do just let me know....
Bye

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTRRR.zip

 

[sosco]

Correction and apollogies to SoCalian (reminded me on Mt. Doom), The Last Conformist gave me info on biq file (thnx).
Bye

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by PCHighway
Unbalanced; as if the help file was wrong, it would lead most custom games astray. I imagine most modders would follow the helpfile rather than do testing to come to their own conclusion. And if they did they would post their conclusion at cfc. There are only 30-40 people at Firaxis, I think they would employ a developer to write the helpfile.

But what are you trying to say? Everything is fine, it's not that because the help file turned out wrong, suddenly the mods will have less resources Sorry, but help file is wrong, and you already seen that for yourself.

I didn’t miss one. I just generated more than 15 different maps in the editor. If you have the ‘earth’ set at 4billion years old, you will get 10 iron resources. If you have it set 5billion you will get 12. No matter what size map you have. However, if you increase the number of players, the iron number goes up, correction it skyrockets to as much as 26. Doesn’t this clash with your theory? This is the part I can’t get past, not accepting if the helpfile is wrong or not. [/b]

Actually it supports my theory
I said it's: resources = players * ratio / 100, rounded down. It seems it's slighly modified by available terrain as you reported, ok.. Map size doesn't matter. So it's very true - if you raise the number of players, resources skyrocket accordingly. According to "my" theory, for ratio of 160 and 8 players, the result is 12,8 and for 16 players - 25,6 - your "sky-high" value. Your omnipotent help file again turns out wrong. I mean how can you believe it if it says - "ratio of 160 gives 2 resources per player" and even in umodded game, ratio of 160 gives 1,6 res. per player?

I’ll be the first to admit that the helpfile doesn’t account for about 4-6 resources, it could be because there is no room, or it could be because of the disappearance ratio, or it could be hardcoded.

Test it with 1 resource, test it with 8 if you want. It's just plain wrong. Actually it doesn't make any sense - there is no formula given, only one example, that immediately turns out wrong (you reproduce the example given and get different results).

But won’t this mess up the bonus resources chance of appearing? As you said earlier.

I don't understand how? It's works well in any mod I've seen, including mine If overall luxury ratio will be > 100 then you can get a bit smaller amount of bonus resources, and if it will be < 100, then you will get more bonuses. Simple.

I like your idea of making a special case for Mithril, however. How about an appearance ratio of 60, and a disappearance probability of 1000? I think all the other luxuries should have a disappearance probability of 800, except gold and gems which I think should be 700. But if we give no appearance ratio, then how can one of them disappear?

no appearance ratio (0) = 1 per civ (equiv. of 100). btw another support to my theory
also, disapparance ratio = appearance ratio during the game.
so if a resource disappears often, it appears often too (see Neomega's idea for mercenaries).
But then, I don't understand why do you want to make Mithril more disappearable (if such word exists) than others? I thought it should be the opposite. 1000 = disappears rarely, 700 = more often...
Should Wine, Wool and Pipeweed really disappear at all?

I think the upgrade is ok, but I think wealth’s (shields per gold) should be lowered to 6. You only put a city on wealth if you have nothing better to build, or are low on money. In both cases you should get your times worth.

It's not that important so I wont argue this time I didn't think of it either until conquests came anyway.

I'll pass to the rest of the post in a while, I get seriously disorganized when replying to multi-screen multi-topic posts

 

[embryodead]

+1 happiness per entertainer is a very good bonus, but seems ok since it's for the weakerst faction in game... Maybe Supervisor instead of Tortuer? Just a thought.

What about a webpage (not really a website, just a text overview) of everything that is done, so we may look at it at any time? I can maintain it since I use HTML on a daily basis.

 

[RRnut]

Hello,


Sosco, thanks for updating the map... The link worked but I wasn't able to open the map of course. Thanks!!!


Re: the citizens, the new names look good. I also agree with the bonuses. however, do we want to make certain citizens come with certain techs? i think that this might be worthwile. example, DYP mod. Also, their bonuses should be based on the C3C bonus, not the PTW. I'm not sure but I think that f.e. sci is + 3 Sci?? so the elves should have a + 5 sci. this of course would be a big bonus but would be worthwhile.

was going to ask you to post the .biq file but realized I couldn't read it. oh well.

Also, here are the civilopedia entreys that I promised:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/Civilopedia_Resource_Entries_for_LotM.txt

re the Oliphaunts, should they come with a tech? after all they would have required a large effort to domesticate, and therefore should only be visible after a certain time. couldn't find anything like that though in the techs.txt so just went and made them.


RRnut

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by RRnut
however, do we want to make certain citizens come with certain techs? i think that this might be worthwile. example, DYP mod.

Either civ-specific citizens, or cities that come with a tech, it's impossible to have both.
EDIT: actually I'm wrong on this one, ignore me