Midgame strategy? - Immoral Genghis, isolated start

[guspasho]

Hi. I finally turned the difficulty slider up a notch to immortal, fractal/standard-size map, random leader, and I rolled Genghis Khan. Fun, I thought, I can try my hand at warmongering, since I'm terrible at balancing everything required to do it right. But the game gave me an isolated start with pretty crappy land and few resources. At mid-game I am a long way from coasting to victory, and I'm not sure what my strategy should be.

I decided I needed to tech to Optics as quickly as possible. I whipped out libraries, granaries, and lighthouses as I built the Pyramids and settled my island, then I researched Alphabet, Currency, CoL (spawned Confucianism), then beelined Optics. I switched to Representation and Caste System and built nothing but Research for a while, with my cities at their happy caps (7-8) and running as many scientists as possible. I only popped two Great Scientists (I think) which I built academies with. I don't think I bulbed anything with them. I had no happy resources at all, just a silver resource that was too far away to settle and I wouldn't be able to mine until the closest city gets its third border pop.

I let my workers chop whenever they didn't have an improvement to build and my city was building just about anything other than Research. But I left some forests in my capital city on purpose to keep the unhealth at bay. I have been trying to break myself of the bad habit of not building enough workers. Most of the game, until I settled my last city, I had one worker per city. Now I'm one worker short. I feel like my improvements were probably sloppy, especially with the workshops that probably never got used, but most of the time it seemed that my workers didn't have enough to do. I just recently got Civil Service and thus now have to figure out how and where to chain farms to irrigate distant cities, so that will keep them occupied for a while, I hope, but it's hard to tell when I should build a farm and when I should build a cottage. And I'm not sure how I'm going to irrigate my southernmost city now; I don't want to destroy most of its workshops to get irrigation down there.

Early on in the game I used spawnbusting to prevent barb spawning. I only had to deal with one archer, which my one archer killed, 50% odds, no reloading!

Once I teched Optics I sent out several caravels, discovered an island next door that's worth settling, and met my rivals. I traded with them to backfill techs. I gambled and researched Music to get a great artist, which I used to get my first golden age. I also managed to build the Great Library! I traded for Civil Service and switched to Bureaucracy and Organized Religion during my golden age.

After Music I teched to Astronomy, I used my golden age to pump up my research-building and tech it faster, then immediately started trading for resources. I picked up corn because that's +2 health with granaries and clams (even though I'm soon to settle clams) because I need to build harbors anyway and that's +2 health there. I also picked up gold because that's +2 happy once a build forges, and since I have silver I am going to build forges and skip markets. I can still trade iron to Mehmed for cow, but I'm debating whether that's wise. I already traded away Optics, and my cities' happy caps are lower than my health caps. Should I trade iron for cow?

I built the National Epic in the Great Library city, which had been the best specialist city I have, and once I build a forge, harbor, and maybe an aqueduct too, I plan to run merchants to generate great merchants that I can send on trade missions. I need to build forges and harbors/aquaducts in my other cities as well, and let them grow to their new happy caps.

At this point I can gamble and beeline Liberalism, or build galleons and settlers start expanding to the island next door. Four other rivals already have Paper though. I also need to start building a navy to protect myself from a landing. So I'm not sure how to balance those things. Do I try to beeline Lib first, build out my infrastructure first, or build out my infrastructure and then settle the island next door? Do I trade Astronomy away? Or should I focus on something else that I'm missing?

And most importantly, what should I aim for in the long run to get ahead? How am I going to catch up to some of these other guys, like Charlemagne? If I try for space race, how am I going to manage to stay ahead in tech *and* build the space ship before those larger empires, that I'm going to have to trade techs with the whole time just to keep up? How do I manage a diplomatic victory? I think I've already lost the culture victory, by not getting a much culture early enough. Is Conquest/Domination even possible? Thanks in advance!

PS. Sorry I can't post screenshots, I'm playing on a Mac using Wine, and can't figure out how to take screenshots that way. If anyone knows how, I'd love to know!

EDIT: LOL at the missing t in Immortal.

 

[Cam_H]

guspasho,

I hate to break this to you, but the game's on Emperor difficulty, not Immortal.

I think that Internet-beeline for a Space win is your best bet, but Domination isn't out of the question (with some work).

You have to settle that large island to your east as a priority. Really, you should have been preparing for that not long after you got Optics and discovered the landmass. I'd not dismiss the idea of swapping to Slavery to push progress along. Chop those Forests to the inner south east unless you're planning for a city with the National Park to go there.

Your builds should be at least one Galleon, plus a number of Settlers and Keshiks for setting up 'next door'.

You seem very sensitive to vs ... generally it's not a big problem until the Industrial Era and can be accommodated with Aqueducts in dire situations. I would certainly not avoid building Forges in Production Hubs due to +1.

In terms of tech', I'd consider pursuing Nationalism and burn the Great Engineer on the Taj Mahal (despite your access to Marble). You can then trade Nationalism around for catch-up technologies and good diplo' bonuses given its comparatively high cost when compared to 'say' Engineering and Feudalism. I'd hold onto Astronomy for as long as you have the monopoly.

I'd work at converting your Capital into a solid Science Centre. Its a mish-mash of a Farm, a Production Hub, and a Commerce site. Work those Villages and put down more Cottages there. Let your National Epic citiy produce Great Scientists for merging into Karakorum.

There's a lot of stuff that you might have done differently (e.g. no Moai? That Plains Hill on the south west peninsula with the Rice would be pretty good with the Maoi Statues) and to possibly better effect, but your plan should be to get that neighbouring island settled and productive, while building a compelling Science Centre. As per above, Internet-beeline with a view to Space is what I'd be pursuing from this point, but you'll need to also anticipate to be invaded at some later stage in the game (i.e expect to be invaded, and ensure you can counter an invasion).

Later on, founding and spreading Corporations could be more than handy.

 

[guspasho]

Oops! Well, I only meant to turn the difficulty slider up one notch, so Emperor then. I just can't edit topic titles.

I was a little obsessed about health because I had such a crappy isolated start, with few resources. Rice and Fish were my only health until Astro. So I'll forget about the health and chop and cottage the rest of my capital.

Shouldn't I save the great engineer for the Statue of Liberty?

After I tech and trade Nationalism, it's a long way to the Internet. What should my tech priorities be in the meanwhile? Econ/Corp/Railroad to get a corporation? Usually by this point I've already won and I'm just coasting along until I get bored and it doesn't matter.

Now, just to keep up in science, I usually have to build Research, at least so far in the game I had to. So how do I balance that with achieving my other goals? Am I going to just have to do binary-research? Turn the science slider up and build Research when I need to tech, then shut it all down when I need buildings or units?

Also, switching to Slavery is going to cost me a lot, I'll lose Caste System, which has been sort of central to my methods (running a lot of scientists), what will switching to Slavery at this point get me? Infrastructure in the new island? That'll also wreck my economy, which is already tenuous as it is.

Should I bother settling in the empty spots in my island, just to make use of those tiles? Like that spot west of the capital, between the two other coastal cities? Or is it asking too much to share a single food resource between two cities in a spot like that?

I will probably have more questions but I'm going to play through. I'm going to build the Moai statues in that barb city, I think.

Also, since I'm unsure of my ability to maintain a tech lead, and my production and size aren't great, what would a conquest/domination strategy look like?

 

[Cam_H]

The good news is ...

Spoiler :

It's at least "do able"!

Spoiler :

I hate to 'fess up' like this, but in this game Charlemagne and I had our spaceships landing on the same turn, and the game gave it to the Holy Romans.

Charlemagne was only 5% off Domination and should have attacked Bismark well before the game even allowed me a chance of winning.

Nonetheless, I'm quite sure that it's winnable - I made some very decisions in hindsight, and still nearly won!

Disclaimer ... I'm not professing to 'have all the answers!' ... however;

On Health

'Yep' - having played the game, health issues presented as more oppressive than 'your usual game'. Not on 'The Internet bee-line', but Biology's +1 for Farms was important to fend off some of the . Eventually I was able to trade in Medicine from Gilgamesh and swap to Environmentalism.

Great Engineer

I think that the hurry on the Taj Mahal is one of the better applications for this guy.

Democracy was off the bee-line and not self-researched. Eventually I did have to trade for it because Emancipation unhappiness was rife. Nonetheless, Charlemagne built the Statue of Liberty pretty quickly in my game. Given the small continent (in your game it was six cities, I added three more), even with the contribution from the Great Engineer, it would be a huge investment to finish it off for a non-Industrious leader without Copper and therefore one that I'd not chase.

Technology Path

I ended up doing a lot of trading and eventually 'Libbed' Steel. I went, in terms of targets toward The Internet; Corporation > Biology > Assembly Line > Electricity > Combustion > Industrialism > Radio > Computers, but again, traded a lot.

Keeping up with Technology

I tried to look for 'two-for-one' or 'three-for-one' deals by self-researching technologies not known to the AI where possible. I tried to hold onto monopoly tech's, but once one of the AIs got it (usually Mansa Musa), I'll usually look to see what's on offer.

Occasionally I sold off well known tech's to the lesser AIs when they had a few hundred available.

A few cities indeed did 'Build Wealth' from time-to-time.

As before, 'cottage up' the capital and build as well as multipliers.

Courthouses became 'standard' buildings, and I built The Forbidden Palace in a city on the eastern island to keep maintenance costs under a degree of control.

I scored nine technologies when founding The Internet, and then got maybe five or six afterward.

Slavery

I ended up by-passing Slavery myself as it happens. I stuck with Caste until I got Democracy and could swap to Emancipation.

Expansion

In my view it's very important to expand from the current position. As before, Courthouses were a standard build with Granaries and Forges, which helped a lot with the burden of expansion.

With Biology, those Plains Farms get 3 each when irrigated and 4 for Grassland Farms when irrigated, so you can eventually get a halfway-decent production city without needing a food resource. (In addition to State Property) Workshops get synergy from Guilds, Chemistry, and Caste, so for a while they're pretty handy terrain improvements.

Production Hubs

There aren't a lot of 'dream' production sites, but with more modern technologies and improvements, there are some 'passable' spots. I built Ironworks in Old Sarai, but Karakorum (under Bureaucracy) and Turfan were fair producers. On the island, the area to its east around the Iron has some promise for a production-oriented city.

Alternative VC?

Stuck alone on a continent with Stone and Marble, I'd be curious if Cultural might have been a good pursuit, despite the leader you rolled.

Anyway, I hope my blurb has been of some interest to you.