[UNIT] Mighty Ships Et Al

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Unit Graphics' started by MightyToad, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. MightyToad

    MightyToad Sith Lord

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    I've never liked chariots. Ever since I read about the campaign's of Caesar and Alexander. I was left with the impression they are useless. So, maybe that's not a fair assessment. But that is why I use mounted units in their place. Mounted javelins is an awesome idea.
     
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  2. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Arbiter of the Sword

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    I like the idea of a mounted javelin. Be awesome to have new kinds of mounted units.

    On heavy armored cavalry it might be somewhat "what-if", but its not out of the question, and they would an awesome part of the Mycenean middle ages part of whatever Toad makes.

    Mounted Javelineer could even be a UU for Mycenean, replacing the Chariot.
     
  3. pecheneg

    pecheneg Warlord

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    Yes, mobile javelin throwers are the simplest and most obvious option for early cavalry. It seems, I came across something like this for the earliest version in the Eurasian steppe. The Mycenaeans also probably invented this tactic about half an hour after the start of the riding trips.:deadhorse:
     
  4. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    I wouldn't replace the Chariot though, as chariots were extremely prominent in Mycenean warfare. Probably more of a horse archer replacement.
     
  5. pecheneg

    pecheneg Warlord

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    1. It inefficient chariots were in service with the heirs of Alexander. At the same time, this is easier to explain if we take into account not the Greek patriotic officialdom, but Curtius, who slandered that the left wing of the Greeks in battle of the Gavgamelae... didn't shine. "And Darius turned in that direction, told Bess to order the massaget horsemen from the side to attack Alexander's left wing. In front of him were the sickle-bearing chariots, which, at a given sign, he launched at once at the enemy. The charioteers sped off, letting go of the reins to trample down more people who had not expected such an attack. Some were wounded by spears sticking out of the pole in front, others by scythes sticking out from the sides; but the Macedonians not only retreated before them, but in flight upset their ranks." But the chariots did not survive the collision with the almost "gunshot" Romans.
    2. The sickle-bearing chariots that Caesar and Alexander encountered were a very late invention, after Themistocles and Salamis. In the original, chariots are primarily platforms for a powerful bow shooter with a huge ammunition supply. From a close distance, it is quite piercing a simple shield (with a tension of 46 kg - 38 mm oak board). Naturally, capable of concentrating fire against less mobile infantry.At the same time, 1. compact cavalry bows of the same power had yet to be invented. When it was invented, horror, thrash, and default began all over the periphery of the steppe. 2. Horses, yes. At the same time, a light cart, even with 1 horsepower per person on a flat terrain, is in any case faster than a rider on the same horse.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  6. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Arbiter of the Sword

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    True. I was thinking an early unit, that would upgrade to the Horse archer later.
     
  7. BossDaddy

    BossDaddy Warlord

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    Hey MightyToad,

    Are you using blender to import/export Civ 5 assets? I'm thinking of purchasing the game and have been googling what I may need. From what I've seen so far, it looks like Civ 5 meshes are .fbx files? There seem to be some plugins for blender that will let me open these. I wouldn't think that these would be more difficult to convert than Skyrim assets. I stopped using nifskope to convert assets to .obj's a while ago as that makes the model more polygonal / rougher.

    I did find a .fbx import/export plugin for 2.79 that someone made and it's priced at $25. If the files are .fbx, then this may make it pretty simple to convert from 2.79 to 2.49b and then into Civ 4.

    Edit: I also see that it may be .gr2 files that are used for meshes and skeletons. I know of nexus buddy, but as I'm already using two versions of blender, nifskope, and Gimp, I would like to avoid using another utility if possible.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
  8. MightyToad

    MightyToad Sith Lord

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    Here. Lplate had a thread about this, and it is covered pretty well.

    The procedure I've used is:
    Dragon Unpacker 5: Extract the gr2 from the FPK.
    NexusBuddy2: Convert the gr2 into nb2 format.
    NB2/NBA import script for blender 2.49b: import into Blender 2.49.
    Finally, Assign material and texture and export as obj file.

    I export as obj file to remove all bone weights and the Civ 5 skeleton for future rigging to a Civ 4 skeleton. The obj format isn't a "scene" file. It only contains the mesh and UV info. Obviously this is the last thing you would want to do if you were wanting to use the Civ 5 animations.
    I learned all this from Deliverator. He seems to hang out in the Civ 5 forums. He's been at this for over 10 years. He used the fbx format at one time. I think he has since switched to CN6 format. Anyway, I also have Blender 2.79b. I didn't pay $25 for the fbx plugin. I thought it came with it. Check the user preferences, and see if it only needs to be enabled. If not I am sure there is an open source version available on github.

    Also, you can use "smooth normals" in Nifskope (like ramzay has demonstrated) to remove the ugly blocky look. There is also a setting in Blender 2.49 that seems to smooth to the maximum extent. Also dramatically lowers the file size.
    smooth.jpg
     
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  9. BossDaddy

    BossDaddy Warlord

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    Thanks Toad. The 2.79 version I have may have the .fbx plugin already. I haven't checked the preferences yet, but I will when I get home. I can look into nexus buddy. I simply wanted to be lazy. There are already a number of utilities to convert assets so I wanted to avoid another if possible. I got MTW 2 assets in Civ 4, but I had to download Milkshape and then get blender plugins and do some extra fiddling. At a certain point, it's a little too involved. It's the same thing with Warhammer assets. I always wondered how Kael got the Bloodthirster into FFH. I greatly appreciate the detailed response. I'll look into all of this. Thank you for the heads up about Set Smooth. I'll tinker with that as well.
     
  10. BossDaddy

    BossDaddy Warlord

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    I'll have to keep messing around with this. Smooth normals and set smooth isn't doing anything that I can see and the file sizes remain the same.

    The 2.79 version of blender I have does have .fbx import and export. Time to buy Civ 5 and quit my job.
     
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  11. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Arbiter of the Sword

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    If your thinking of converting Civ5 stuff, I believe Beyond Earth follows the same format.
     
  12. BossDaddy

    BossDaddy Warlord

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    Haha, I'm such a dope. I've had BE for years. Oh well. Civ 5 is finishing now. All Civ 5 content is on sale for $50.
     
  13. BossDaddy

    BossDaddy Warlord

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    Yeah, dunno. Nexus buddy crashes when I export to .nb2.

    Edit: I tried something from the downloads section like Lplate mentioned in that thread and that worked. I can get those into blender and then Civ 4. I'll have to puzzle out why vanilla assets are crashing nexus buddy some other time though.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
  14. MightyToad

    MightyToad Sith Lord

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    stringdatabase.jpg
    You have to load the string database before you export the nb2. It will be in the same directory as the gr2. Although, as a test I tried doing it without loading it to see what would happen, and no crash. :think:
    Deliverator explained when installing to set up fake folders that the program checks for when installing Nexusbuddy. Maybe that. I have no idea.
     
  15. BossDaddy

    BossDaddy Warlord

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    I'll double check. Thanks MightyToad.
     
  16. Paulinho

    Paulinho Chieftain

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  17. tantanmen

    tantanmen Warlord

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    Hello Paulinho, welcome to the forum :)

    In this thread, MightyToad is providing his art as resources for modders to add to their mods. So if you would like to use these beautiful chariot archers, the first thing you will need is a mod.

    To get started with a mod, if you like unit art, I would recommend the Varietas Delectat mod: graphic-mod-varietas-delectat-v9-2-civ-specific-unit-sets

    Next, you will need to learn a little xml. Here is a tutorial on adding new units to the xml: adding-new-units

    topsecret has also made several video tutorials on modding: video-tutorials-on-modding-civ4

    To quote one of our longtime modders: "Experience comes from doing, never from tutorials or guides alone." As a beginner, if you have any more questions about modding, please feel free to ask here: quick-modding-questions-thread

    These are just some quick suggestions. You will probably want to explore and browse this site for a while. Hope this helps! :thumbsup:
     
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  18. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Arbiter of the Sword

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    Just was thinking of the Mounted Javelineer thing and wanted to add I think its a great idea. Riding alone is a skill, but riding as a skilled archer takes some skill to say the least. I would imagine as far as ranged cavalry goes the Horse Archer wouldn't be the first to appear. Not counting Chariot Archers.
     
  19. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Arbiter of the Sword

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    Were you going to attempt a Horse Javelineer Toad? I imagine it would involve taking the Skirmisher animations and having the rider on horseback no?
     
  20. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Arbiter of the Sword

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    I think you did something like that before with a canoe based archer unit come to think of it.
     

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