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[UNIT] Mighty Ships Et Al

Just one request Toad. There is a Clipper ship out there, its decent

This one? I've been using it for a long time now. I would like an upgrade as well. The rigging can be swiped from existing ships, but have to make a new hull. Maybe something already exists somewhere? I always had in my head that clipper ships used more fore/aft sails than this.
Awesome I'm glad it strikes your muse.

From what I know of Clippers, they were the last major sailing ship designed. They had the narrow hull, and ATON of sails, they were designed for speed, and were used for cargo if I'm not mistaken.

As for existing hull, not sure. Maybe Walter Hawkwood may know, also there are Ramzay's european ships, but I don't know if any of them could be of use as the basis for a Clipper hull.

Here is how it is looking. I scrapped and redid the bow three times. Going with this one. Hull was originally based on an older design from the 1850's. Cutty Shark maybe. That one doesn't look like the recognizable "clipper bow" we are familiar with today. I wanted it to have 5 masts, but most reference material only had 3. So, this is a frankenstein of several ships. Not based on any one ship in particular.
Think I will do a 5 masted schooner using this hull.
Wow you could call that ship the King of Sail!

Its funny Toad because the Clipper was one of the last designs of the Age of sail, and it was almost more sail than hull. Fitting end to the period?

I am liking that design. This one sort of makes me think "what if the industrial/steam power revolution never happened" and sailing ship advancements continued, this being a "Clipper of the Line" or something.
Clippers were not just the last sailing ship designs, they were a very niche design. They were specifically built to squeeze maximum speed out of sails. The reason clippers appeared is that in XIX century, there were certain cargoes with a great premium for a speedy delivery - and rather light (tea is a prime example). Not only for military service, but even for most other cargo jobs the clipper design would be grossly impractical. It required a large and very well-trained crew, and due to its weight restriction, wouldn't be able to carry a lot of guns - not to mention its narrow hydrodynamic hull would make it very easy to capsize from any broadside such ship of the line fired.

That said, the last fully sailing ships of the line also carried quite an advanced sailing armament - but were obviously still built like floating bricks due to their function: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victoria_(1859)

The sail/steam competition was actually quite similar to the bow/gun one. While early steamships would usually be slower than sailing ones and had a rather limited operational range, they required fewer crewmen to operate, and those crewmen required much less training. Kind of like longbow vs musket - an individual bowman was at first much more effective than an individual gunner, but took years (vs weeks) to train; this meant both fewer individuals available at any given time and the casualties among them being much less replaceable.
Ships of this size and length are exceeding the limits of purely wood construction. Only possible with an iron frame. Which requires industrial quantities of iron. Which requires industrial quantities of coal and (probably) steam engines. So, I don't think you can have one without the other.

To expand on what Wally said. If you wanted to sail all the way to india, or australia with purely steam power; you would have to stop somewhere and refuel. Wind on the other hand is readily available.

If you just want to haul ass across the ocean in the trade winds. The square sail is the way to go. But the schooner rig doesn't have the massive crew requirements of climbing the rigging and manually setting the sails. With steam powered winches they could sail with a minimal crew. Schooners on the other hand are more difficult to control, and require a more experienced crew. If they were tacking into the wind and the wind suddenly gusted the wrong direction they could be demasted, or even capsize.
Interesting. I guess the idea of the "War Clipper" is out the window, which is fine. Early Steam era is pretty interesting all to itself. I can see why the Steampunk genre came about. In a timeline to experienced a slower rate of advancement(staying in the steam era for at least a couple hundred more years), you have to wonder what sort of divergent technologies and of coarse, warships would arise.

Regardless I see the Clipper alot in paintings around here anyway. Even if its not the most practical of ships, I think it is a wonderfully beautiful design. I can see scaled down smaller ships that use the premise the Clipper is trying for(sail as fast as possible) with Schooners as you said Toad.
Regarding guns....

I wanted to have something like this:


I think this is from a russian ship model. Anyway, if these ships were armed at all they probably would only have a couple deck guns like this. I decided it wasn't worth it to go with this because it would require adding a turret bone since it would have to turn to fire.
I added 4 token small cannons on the bow and stern using the frigate animation.
I am impressed how innovative and resourceful you are. Are those happening to be your leader traits? :)

It is funny you mentioned "The Limit of wooden ship size" being reached around that time. Long ago there was an artist in the Civ3 community who liked doing what if ships and one he came up with he called "The Trident", more or less a monster of a ship like ten times the size of a Ship of the Line. I had no idea that such a ship would sink before it was even built, no?
Its hull would simply not hold together. The same reason you don't see wooden skyscrappers. Wood has several disadvantages that each independently put an upper limit on the wooden hulls:

1) Wood is bendy. The longer the hull is, the more it will potentially. Sideways would be bad enough, but in rough sea conditions, consider a ship hull a kind of a bridge, potentially resting its ends on two wave crests. Hogging is a problem for steel hulls as well, but it is much more pronounced in wooden ones.
2) Wood is made from trees. There is an upper limit of how long a wooden beam can be due to this simple fact. In contrast, a metal beam can be as long as your needs dictate it.
3) Wood is organic. This means rot and woodworm creating structural weaknesses in random places of the hull, which serves to exacerbate the first two problems. Before you bring up rust, rust is much more predictable as to where it occurs and can be more easily counteracted.

Lastly, though I will not list this as 4) due to it not being wood's fault, since mid-XIX century a metal hull would also simply be cheaper to build than a wooden one, in addition to all of the above. The largest sailing ships all had iron/steel hulls:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS_Sedov (currently the largest sailing ship in service)
Regarding guns....

Most clippers would simply not carry any guns - after all, guns are really heavy and the job of a clipper was to be as light as possible. But this passage refers to some clippers being (lightly) armed when they were expected to encounter pirates:

Even then, the armament would be 2-6 relatively light guns, so your choice seems to be quite historical.

The swivel gun you posted is an interesting curio; those were mostly used by Russian and Swedish navies operating in the Baltic. In an archipelago / complex coastline setting of the Baltic an ability to quickly reposition the gun would be vital; in an open sea setting it is much easier to reposition the ship itself. AFAIK they weren't used much outside the Baltic. For high seas, the evolution was broadside -> casemate -> turret.
I'm not an engineer. So, I don't know the actual limit of a purely wood ship is. I saw some figures a couple years ago. The chinese treasure ships were supposedly over 400 feet long. Caligula lake barge was similar. So, on a calm lake you could probably make something enormous, but it wouldn't be something you could sail across the ocean.

I saw a video on youtube of this modern steel cargo ship. Looking down the deck in a squall it was like a giant caterpillar wiggling and crawling across the waves. :eek:
You did a wonderful, beautiful job. Toad quality Clippers indeed! I love the Schooner, Seems like it would be the faster of the two since it has more Lanteen sails, from what I understand it allows the ship to sail against the wind, and the sails can change position, though if this was the case I'm sure the standard clipper wouldn't exist.
since it has more Lanteen sails

Lateen sails.... :twitch:


Lateen sails are about 1000 years obsolete. I don't know why everyone puts them on everything. Sure, they are common place even today in the Mediterranean, but still... Their main draw back is to change the tack you have to lower the sail completely and raise it again on the other side of the mast. With the gaff (like on a schooner) you just swing the boom to the other side of the ship.

I don't know that a schooner would be faster (probably not). Its main advantage is being cheaper. Ones like this were made to compete with steam ships.
Finally got around to the gatling gun. Nothing to say about it that hasn't been gone over previously with the pistol cavalry. Finished up the pistol cavalry as well. The gatling gun animations are a bit less jerky, and look less sped up from missing frames. I used the mech infantry gun sounds and effect rather than the machine gunners. Partly cause of the lower rate of fire, and just because is looks and sounds more impressive.
Also, did used one of the boer cavalry riders for the Texas Ranger since it looks like one already. Just slap a tin star on him, and he is ready to shoot some comancheroes.

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