Militant Agnosticism?

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Warlord
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
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Taking Theocracy can prevent the spread of religions into your territory, after you adopt it.

Is there any way for an Agnostic civ to get rid of a religion once it's already there?

The only way I'm aware of (to get rid of a religion) is using Inquisition through priests, which Agnostic civs can't build.

(This bit me in the rear recently; Hyborem whispered away the city where I had 2 of the 4 towers. I was already building the Tower of Mastery at the time.)
 
If you're playing as the Grigori (which I assume you are since they're the only playable Agnostic civ in the game IIRC), you can use Luonnotars to conduct inquisitions. You get them from the same tech you get Archmages from, but you need a melee unit of at least lv6 (likely an adventurer) to upgrade to them.
 
The only ways to ever remove a religion are The Purge of the Unfaithful ritual (which requires a state religion) or the Inquisition spell. The Grigori get The Luonnator druid-UU at strength of will (They have a level requirement, while druids do not; this seems wrong), but the Illians have no way to remove a religion once it spreads. Hopefully this will be addressed before Ice.

The Agnostic Trait does slow the spread of religions.


When I play as the Grigori (and not my modmod) I try to spread religions to my cities as much as possible. Grigori Medics who randomly get religions from the cities where they are built are the equivalents of High Priests.





In my version, Luonnator are available at Philosophy. (I'm rearranging the tech tree slightly, so that Priesthood, Way of the Wicked, and Way of the Wise come right after Mysticism, and Philosophy requires either Way of the Wise or Way of the Wicked. Philosophy is also more expensive, and is the tech prereq for Rebublic. Still, this is sooner that Strength of Will.) They are weaker, but lack the level requirement. They will attack disciple units even it stacks of stronger units, except in cities, like the Khmer War Elephant UU targets mounted units in BtS. They don't have the Inquisitor promotion/spell, but have a unit-specific "Enlighten" spell. This works like Inquisition minus the state religion requirement, so you can use it to rid a rival's cities of his State Religion. I'm still trying to decide whether I should let them move through rival territory, since otherwise rivals (at least human ones) would refuse to give you open borders. If so, I'll probably have to make the spell take longer or often fail. I'm also thinking I may make Enlighten also remove the religion from units in the casters stack (probably a small, random chance to do so for each unit). Because of the Grigori Medic exploit, I made Priest spells require state religion while priests themselves don't, an moved the Cure Disease and Heal spells come from their medic promotions (Grigori medics don;t have divine or channeling anymore). That also means that a Priest (or Esus recon unit) who listens to the Luonnatar and abandons his god will lose all its spells.

Hows that for Militant Agnosticism for ya? ;):goodjob::cool:

(Plus, my adventurers can join a city as a Local Legend, (giving free xp, culture, and Adventurer GPP) and upgraded Adventurers can revert back to an adventurer unit at any time, ad upgrade to a unit of a very different type. The Grigori are really Awesome in my version, but to be fair I'm making religions much stronger too)


I also gave the Illians some "White Hand" disciple UUs (unitcombat_disciple lets them purchase the inquisitor promotion), and gave Inquisitor to the Auric Unit. My version of Auric is basically a weak Mage with Ice affinity, plus Ice 1 (I've implemented the Ice sphere), command 1-2 and inquisitor. He can be built, and is a starting unit in non advanced start games (like Lucian). Like Basium/Hyborem(/Orthus), his death costs you your traits.
 
salve magister,

is there a chance a new version of your modmod will be released soon?
i think you said something about working it over when the next patch is released
(and when the tendency to CtD is fixed...)
oh, and trying to download the current version (first post of your magister modmod thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/upload..._II_030f-1.zip ) gives a 404 not found error... dont know if thats already known...

a couple of questions:
is the auric hero of the sort that is resurrectable?
if so, does ressurecting him give your traits back?
does losing the agnostic trait mean you can research religious techs and adopt a state religion? (and if so, what happens if you get the trait back by resurrecting the hero?)
is your modmod compatibel to fall further? there were a couple of aspects one of you wanted to implement and the other dont wanted to, iirc... does this cause incompatibility?
thats it for the moment :)

hoping you;re having time to work on your modmod
there are quite a few of us, who really want to play this often-quoted gem :D
 
I probably would have released a new version about a week ago, but it is riddled with bugs. CtDs mostly, but often weird worldbuilder behavior about half the time.

Yeah, I know the old version's link doesn't work. It hasn't since that hacker incident. I don't have that version on my harddrive anymore either.



I hadn't thought about his resurrection. Currently Wilboman is still considered their hero, so I guess he cannot be resurrected. (Auric also does not have the Hero promotion, although channeling2 still gives him free xp.) There is no way to get your traits backs, whether Illian, Infernal, or Mercurian. (Note that these civs also start out with more traits than most.) Losing the Agnostic Trait does not make you able to adopt a religion. That is actually not handled by the trait but by the leader's religion weights. I think that the only real effect of Agnostic is slowing the spread of religion in your cities.



One of the biggest biggest problems I'm having is merging the SDKs of xienwolf's modmod, UnitStats, and Broader Alignments (taken from Fall Further, since Grey Fox hasn't updated his version lately) to use as a base for my modmod. (I'm also trying to include FFHBUG and a slightly toned down version of Explorable Lairs, but those don't require SDK changes.) Several of my ideas rely on schema changes made by either xienwolf or Grey Fox,but not currently available in the same mod. I thought I had successfully compiled the merge, but when I try to change the xml files I couldn't get the game to load. What I'm really hoping for is that someone can convince Vehem to include all of these in Fall Further soon. If he does, then I'll just steal his DLL. I'd probably go ahead and build my modmod on top of Fall Further (meaning they would be compatible), but have his new civs be disabled by default (meaning you could uncheck the box in a custom game if you want to allow them).



I have more time to work on it now that I dropped one of my summer classes, but not as much as I was hoping. I'm afraid that I've spent a lot of time that I should have spent studying Dynamics trying to get the modmod to work. I really won't have any time for FfH until after the test on Wednesday. (Maybe that will be enough time for some one to convince Vehem to make the needed SDK changes for me. If so, I could probably have the modmod out in within a week.)
 
Thanks for the information guys.

The truth is I was playing Vehem's modmod as the Kahdi, so the Luonnator aren't available to me. I'd been hoping there was another method that I could've used. This info is helpful when I play the Grigori, though.

I'll go and post in his thread about it.
 
Khad isn't agnostic, he just can't adopt a religion. He can build religious disciple units, but not priests. Since Inquisitor requires Channeling 2, they can't get it. I'm pretty sure they can get Druids and give them Inquisitor though.
 
The real question, is why do you want to remove religions from your borders? AV spread thick, I guess, could do it.
 
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