Military Alliances--Too Easy?

[Jhaeman]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like getting military alliances is too easy--often AI civs will flatly refuse to trade me tech or resources, but will happily invade at my behest nearer and far more powerful civilizations for a few hundred gold (the equivalent would be Al-Qaeda convincing Canada to invade the U.S. on the promise of a few million bucks!). This is nice when I need some help, but it's also quite annoying when the AI teams up with each other.

In my current game, I played as a friendly tech-trader & had Polite relations with each of the ten other civilizations in the game all the way up to 1870 A.D.--not a single war or diplomatic transgression on my part. Then I told a foreign unit that had trespassed into my territory to leave (like I'd done many times before) and that civ immediately declared war on me--over the next few turns, a cascading alliance led to 9 of the 10 civs declaring war on poor, peaceful little old me (I think I'll be able to hold out for a couple of decades before getting wiped out)! I guess what I'm saying is that it seems odd there's no way to really build up goodwill over time or to ensure peace other than with a mutual protection pact (which will likely get you drawn into wars with other civs).

 

[TheOverseer714]

If you are militarily weak, demanding that unwanted visitors leave is nearly guaranteed to start an unwanted war. Either don't do it, or better yet, don't let visitors in. It usually takes units to either form a border, or block chokepoints. The AI will not try to cross blocked territory.

 

[Padma]

And why did you let them gang up on you?

The first thing you should have done once he declared, was to visit all the other AI Civs, explain that this meanie was picking on you, and ask them to help you open a big ol' can of whoop-ass on him.

That way, they're ganging up on him, instead of on you.

 

[Jhaeman]

Had I known it was going to turn into 9 on 1, I would have co-opted many of his allies sooner In my past wars, the AI has never been that aggressive against me and we usually end up making peace after 5 to 10 turns, so I didn't want to join a bunch of military alliances only to make those civs mad by making a peace treaty while they were still at war. In other words, I haven't managed to figure out yet when a random war against some distant civ will be a petty annoyance of a few units occasionally landing or the lead-up to a massive world war.

That aside, I still think it's a bit weird about how easy it is to get allies to begin with, whether it's me or the AI doing it. Or maybe it's just my feelings are hurt that nice, neutral Switzerland-me suddenly became, in their eyes, an evil dastardly opponent who had to be wiped off the face of the earth at all costs! If nothing else, I guess I can feel I finally brought about global unity, even if it was only unity in the desire for me to be eliminated

 

[psweetman1590]

If there's been a lot of peace lately, it's likely that all of the civs are relatively rich - and thus have more money to bribe to others to fight you.

While Padma is right about diplomacy sometimes being the best weapon in war, that doesn't address your main point about alliances being made at the drop of a hat. This is something Civ4 has tried to fix - an AI's relation with you matters more, and in some cases it doesn't matter how much one tries to bribe a civ, they won't backstab their friend.

 

[Padma]

Very true, psweetman. In Civ4, your relations with the AI civs matters. In Civ3, if you can pay them enough, they will throw their scruples out the window.

 

[MGS]

Ahhh... Bribes work perfectly. If you can hold out for maybe 10 turns, you can usually make peace.

 

[Bowsling]

In an old game, I was the Ottomans on an island. Russia decided they wanted 23 gold from me, so I said no. They bring in the entire known world against me, and still do nothing, as I was on an island. On my turn, with one tech each, I get Scandinavia to declare war on the Byzantines, and England on France. Then they were more willing to make peace.

 

[Brucha]

I would say that MA's are now too easy. In fact, they are frustratingly hard IMO. I don't know how many times I have secured MA's against an opponent, onlt to have the AI either do ABOSOLUTELY nothing or opt out of the conflict by getting peace way before the 20 turns are up. A good example is where you are at war with the largest, most powerful civ in the game and your "allies" are sending one single unit at a time to the attack.

Just my personal rant on MA's I am afraid...

 

[Bobv2]

On the topic of Civ4, is the AI still pathetic at overseas invasion of does it actually attempt invasion?

(The 3 Destroyer and 1 Transport things the CivIII AI does makes me laugh)

Of all games, this is where most games fall short. An AI that can fight overseas. Is it really that hard?

Is water simply the bane of AI, meaning that overseas combat is just something you can't code easily? Well, I know a DECENT amount a coding, and it seems to me like a routine to amass troops in one big landing instead of sending in trickles at a time seems not too far fetched.

 

[Bartleby]

I had a military alliance disaster in my current game. I was fighting the Ottomans so I used what leverage I had to buy a dogpile. Meanwhile, Sumeria gets Steam Power as their free IA tech so I mortgage my eyeballs to pay for it, and all-but recoup my losses by selling to my allies in Babylon and Russia. A couple of turns later, the Babs and Russkies renege on their alliances and I can't afford to buy them back in. The turn after that the Ottos sign up my former allies on their side! Now I'm paying Gilgamesh 220 gpt and not getting anything to make up the balance. I had to shut off research and swich lots of scientists to taxmen just to make ends meet. Luckily I triggered my golden age soon after, so I could start to get solvent again.

 

[Brucha]

Ha, ha! That is exactly what I mean, Bartleby! When it comes to MA's, the AI cannot be trusted to fulfill their obligations. Similar situations have happened to me as well when a Civ I have allied with suddenly switched sides in the middle of a war.

 

[candle]

yea had this happen to me tonight, finally sat down and played Civ3 my first time actully lol. I had taken over Africa totally, no AI to stop me, then I just choked that little strip between Africa and Eurasia. Then build all my domestic stuff, mind you I also had alot of troops garrisoned first, call it Civ2 paranoia or what ever. I decided to expand after my continent was doing good, 60% tech 20% happiness and i was still pulling profit, well low and behold I move my settler out, and I guess I built to close to the Americans cause next thing i know ive got a declaration of war and then the other civs comming down on me all at once. I hadn't bothered to establish contact, another old CivII thing of mine, was just sit back and become 20x more advanced than everyone else and let them do there own things. Well I quickly found 7 civs totally comming straight at me. I lost my first 2 cities to this, lucky me and my garrisons where able to push them back, then just took over America, but yea the MA seems more ridiculous than it does in CivII. And I also noticed there alot more greedy

 

[Jingo7]

I think MAs are ok in civ3. SInce the whole game is simply a representation, doesnt it make sense that the AI isnt clingy? I mean like turn years can be large and whole governments can fall or reshuffle (democracy) or an aristocratic family can change (monarchy) etc. Its pretty dumb that you are the leader forever and have a reputation with every other leader.
Anyway i like realism best

 

[Bowsling]

Actually, what would be best would be if they changes their attitude over the years. They consistently behave like 19th century Europeans, but if there is a big aggressive fascist civ, the AI would get totally bribed to sign MAs. Like in WW2, if Civ III AIs were in charge (oh no! it's the matrix 100 years early!), Germany could have gotten Britain, France, Australia, Canada, the US and a bunch of other countries to gang up on the SU, then the SU could have just reversed it. If you get what I mean.

 

[Jingo7]

not sure i understand you, but it would be a scary world with civ3 AIs in charge!

 

[Argetnyx]

Actually, what would be best would be if they changes their attitude over the years. They consistently behave like 19th century Europeans, but if there is a big aggressive fascist civ, the AI would get totally bribed to sign MAs. Like in WW2, if Civ III AIs were in charge (oh no! it's the matrix 100 years early!), Germany could have gotten Britain, France, Australia, Canada, the US and a bunch of other countries to gang up on the SU, then the SU could have just reversed it. If you get what I mean.

Actually, if the AIs were playing WWII, Germany would have still lost.