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Military captives

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Koshling, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    I am currently playing a deity game on the latest SVN as of about a week ago. Since V27 the concept of military captives has been added, which are units you get (probabilistically) on defeating enemy military units, and which can be upgraded to military units of your own or settled as settled slaves (and other variants depending on techs/civics I believe).

    I **really** like this mechanic, BUT I have found it makes the game way too easy currently because the AI doesn't know how to use it. For the first time for a long time, starting on immortal, and immediately increasing to deity, I got into the lead by the end of the prehistoric era (without taking out any AI players - just with hunting and hits ion barbarians to get my captives). A LARGE part of this was hugely increased productivity from having a few settled slaves in every city, which the AI has not seemed to do at all.

    I love the feature, but it desperately needs some supporting AI work.
     
  2. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    That mechanic should probably be disabled then until it gets AI support, otherwise it is highly imbalancing on the game.
     
  3. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    This is ONE of DH's new projects, and THIS is only the forefront of what is "yet" to come.
    I believe he is just testing certain areas out and see how things are going first, and seeing if certain areas are ok or not (just guessing), but he has a whole new project in development on how slaves and capturing is done, only reason we got this i believe, is a fragment of testing till he gets back from Holiday Vacation with with Mum.
    Since "we" are eliminating the Slavery Civic. This is the best to my knowledge, i am sure DH, if he has time, will say more.
     
  4. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Yes like SO said, that was DH's intent. He warned it was temporary and don't get used to it cause it was gonna change.

    JosEPh
     
  5. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Actually in v27 I changed the name of "Slaves" to "Military- Captive" and the name of the settled specialist "Citizen" to "Settled Slave" with a small change to stats to the latter to match the slave specialist. Otherwise it is as always was.

    I'll update the appropriate thread (Slaves, Hostages and Prisoners of War) with what I am trying to do so that someone can look into writing the AI. In the mean time I'll disable it like the other stuff waiting for some AI to be written - just the food caravans at the moment:mischief:
     
  6. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Yeah I love this too. I can't wait until the AI learns how to use it too. Great job DH! :goodjob:
     
  7. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I just read that thread and the thought had occurred to me that we'll need special AI for those units so that the AI players can take full advantage of them.

    What we'd need to do there is figure out first the order in which they would evaluate the different possible actions such units could take, then zero in on each and determine exactly how it would evaluate if, when, and where to take said possible actions.
     
  8. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    The subdued animal AI is pretty close to what is needed I think. It already tries to get the units home (they should perhaps also ask for an escort if the route isn't fairly safe, since they don't have the benefit of the hunter ai set up to escort them as subdued aniamals did). It also knows how ro evaluate things they can build. Now, in the case of the captives it's specialists they can settle as, so it's not exactly the same, but it should be pretty similar.
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Yeah, that would make for a good template to work off of... but it should still be a unique ai set shouldn't it? Or are you saying we simply adjust the subdued animal ai and give the captured units that ai, knowing that animals won't be able to take certain steps included there?
     
  10. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Better a separate one that uses many of the same routines I think. The AI used to get the captives home will need to be somewhat different to that which the animals use (which is cooperative with the hunter AI)
     
  11. Alex Costa

    Alex Costa Warlord

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    Actually they are very useful for rushing World Wonders.
     
  12. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    And they should remain so. ;)
     
  13. WimpyTheWarrior

    WimpyTheWarrior Warlord

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    I agree they should assist with Wonder rushing, but IMO they're too helpful as is. I've cut the iBaseHurry in half for UNIT_CAPTIVE_MILITARY and UNIT_CAPTIVE_CIVILIAN and I would recommend that the modders look at using these lower values. The captured units are still valuable to rush Wonders but it is still a race to complete the Wonder.

    The ability to rush Wonders with captured units breaks the classic "Guns or butter" argument for economic priorities. I can build "guns" (a powerful military) and still provide "butter" (Wonders, and lots of them) for my people. So I would be careful with ANY unit or game technique that allows a player to build a strong army and not fall behind in other areas. Captured Tech would be another example but for my tastes that seems to be balanced OK.
     
  14. IronClaymore

    IronClaymore Warlord

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    Ahh thanks. I saw Gilgamesh with a few Military Captive guys and I wondered what they were, before I realised he was running slavery and it was a slave. Incidently it was an Uzbekistan slave (I know because they were coming from the combat lines), a civ who I helped him overthrow using spies. (By the way, if you're ahead, dump some commerce into espionage and go wild with spies. You can really mess up the enemy. Just for the hell of it.)

    The whole slavery thing makes me feel better about conquering him afterwards now actually. Stupid slavemaster of legendary reputation. But the AI don't settle them, the captives. When I used to run slavery, I'd settle the slaves, even or especially in new cities for that permanent extra production boost that goes well beyond anything the terrain gives them. Or just dump them into my military city and produce a river of highly trained swordsmen to go slaughter the enemy.
     

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