Military Discussion: Attack Russia or not?

[GenMarshall]

No I dont mean attack Russia now . I am just setting up a discussion on weather we will attack Russia in the future or focus on a different civ we come across to.

At the moment. I have set a goal that before we attack anyone is a minumum of 10 Warriors, though I personaly would want to push for 15. I know there are people saying "15 warriors now?! we need to focus on expanding first" and that I understand. I am in no hurry on raising an army quickly and I do like to emphisise on expanding our borders and building more settlers for cities. Since Cities = Increace in gpt, Increace in gpt = More support for the military, more support for the military = more units .

So I am going to open the floor on if we should attack Russia in the future when we have adiquet units.

 

[Paalikles]

Given our current lands and what we can see from the map
(by that I refer to screenshots posted in T/C by the Despot), I d say warrior gambit might be unwise. We need to grab enough land to get us out of this unfortunate situation we are in land-wise. That will require resources, which cannot be spent building the army

my 2 gold

Paalikles, FA deputy moron

 

[GenMarshall]

Originally posted by Paalikles
Given our current lands and what we can see from the map
(by that I refer to screenshots posted in T/C by the Despot), I d say warrior gambit might be unwise. We need to grab enough land to get us out of this unfortunate situation we are in land-wise. That will require resources, which cannot be spent building the army

my 2 gold

Paalikles, FA deputy moron

I know and understand that. But I am not talking about raising a warrior army at THIS instant. I am however planning this for when we do have a sizable empire for a size of a warrior gambit. I will also talk with the Minister of the Interior to keep a sharp eye out for Settler/worker factory sites.

 

[ravensfire]

No war with the Bear, at least, not right now. They are more valuable as a possible trading partner, and ally against a more aggressive country.

In general, I'm against Ancient Era wars - they tend to slow down growth. Having said that, the past C3C and current C3C have BOTH involved AE wars. One (as Ottomans), started with Swordsmen, and ended with Sipathi (20 turns of peace in the middle, but that was it!).

EDIT: Once we get into the Middle Ages, I fear the Cossack! It might be good to, umm, persuade, Cathy to not have any saltpeter resources. Yeah, persuade, that's it!

-- Ravensfire

 

[GenMarshall]

Originally posted by ravensfire
No war with the Bear, at least, not right now. They are more valuable as a possible trading partner, and ally against a more aggressive country.

In general, I'm against Ancient Era wars - they tend to slow down growth. Having said that, the past C3C and current C3C have BOTH involved AE wars. One (as Ottomans), started with Swordsmen, and ended with Sipathi (20 turns of peace in the middle, but that was it!).

EDIT: Once we get into the Middle Ages, I fear the Cossack! It might be good to, umm, persuade, Cathy to not have any saltpeter resources. Yeah, persuade, that's it!

-- Ravensfire

I sense you are a dove Well what should we do if a larger civ decides to push its weight around? Do we just sit around and do nothing or do we take up arms and fight? Also this is not just for Russia, this should also apply to other Civs.

 

[Paalikles]

I dont think the esteemed Raven is considering no armed forces at all - but not a devoted offensive army yet.

You werent there CG, but we popped a lot of huts (2 at least) containing angry tribesmen....so the RNG is against us at present

 

[wlievens]

It would be foolish to waste resources on conquering an empire that has little to offer us!

 

[ravensfire]

Originally posted by CivGeneral


I sense you are a dove Well what should we do if a larger civ decides to push its weight around? Do we just sit around and do nothing or do we take up arms and fight? Also this is not just for Russia, this should also apply to other Civs.

Dove? Me? Just ask the Sumerians about my "dovish" ways!

You are correct, we need to have the ability to defend ourselves, and against all nations that pose a threat to us.

What I want to avoid is a needless war, just for the sake of a war. Conflicts should be entered into with narrow, specific objectives. While we should always be able to defend ourselves, we need to balance the needs of the military against the needs of our cities.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Rik Meleet]

It would be foolish to conquer a scientific civ which is more valuable to us if it stays a decent size. If Russia grows normally, it will do the research for us which we buy (commercial remember).

We can fight other civs, but not Russia. Perhaps we should never attack or try to conquer Russia.

"Better a good neighbour than a far-away friend"

 

[GenMarshall]

Originally posted by ravensfire
What I want to avoid is a needless war, just for the sake of a war.

Well its actialy not possible to avoid needless war. Since there could be agressive Civs that can declare war on us from out of the blue.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

No. It's an odd idea to even sugest. We are not even on our third city. We cannot fathom the idea of war right now. We a)lack any standing army that does not serve as explorers b)do not know where russia is c)do not know where our resources are and d) they serve as a trading partner now.
When we know where Kathy is and know where her salt is, a precautionary measure would be a good idea in the name of keeping the peace. But as for now, no

 

[Peri]

It is far too early to even think about war.

 

[GenMarshall]

Originally posted by Peri
It is far too early to even think about war.

Well, its never to early to discuss. It never hurts to plan ahead. I rather plan things (Now after this whole Fiasco) 2-3 weeks in advance, rather than wait 2 days.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I agree with CG here. It's wise to plan ahead.

Since Russia seems to be far away and we can hopefully occupy chokepoints at the lake (or even further) it isn't smart to build up a huge warrior force. That'll cost us a lot in unit-upkeep. It is wiser to have a swift-response force made up from horsed-units. They can also be upgraded all the way up to Cavs. That way we'll always be equipped with fast, fairly strong and retreating units.

I say: go easy on the warriors, use them for exploration and blockading and when the time is ripe, build up a horse-force.

 

[ybbor]

well, obviously not now, but i think war will come, and when it does it should not be a destroy russia for good war, but a medium sized surgical one, to either eliminate resources, or prevent russian dominance, as long as we are in the ancien age i wouldn't think about it, however, a rush for chivalry, with posibly a few horseman to speedup the process would probably be the right time

 

[Peri]

Originally posted by CivGeneral


Well, its never to early to discuss. It never hurts to plan ahead. I rather plan things (Now after this whole Fiasco) 2-3 weeks in advance, rather than wait 2 days.

However there is very little we can get fixed at the moment.
It is just blue sky thinking at the moment.
We cant make any rational decisions until we have a lot more infomation.

 

[Chieftess]

Bad idea to decide now. You don't even know what their lands look like, or if it will even be useful. They're more useful as a trading partner now, given the current desert and jungle start... They're also the only other civ we know right now. Imagine if we were on an island. Wiping them out means no trading (i.e., letting the AI research the unit/wonder techs, and going for "empty techs"). At the rate this demogame is going (5 turnchats in 1 month! ), it might be 2-3 months before you have a decent war. You don't even know where the horses and iron are. You don't even know the terrain around the lake yet. There's just too many unknowns right now to consider attacking. (iron, horses, location of any other civs mainly).

 

[GenMarshall]

@CT - I wanted to post up a discussion thread so that the same Fiasco wont happen again with neglegent leaders. I for one I am trying to salvage what I have in the Military Department.

Yes I know it will take time to raise our military once we get Iron and horses. I just wanted to make a duscussion early. I beleve we should Continue exploring and creating cities and the T&T to give us The Wheel and Iron Working via science or trade with Russia.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I see CT's point about it being way too early to decide, since we are not even aware of what Russia's homeland looks like.

However, given our poor land conditions, and the attendant hit to our production capabilities in the near future, I am afraid going to war footing now would be crippling to our economy and future growth.

I cannot support any war preparations at this time.

 

[Illusion13]

Well, I say since we arent all that powerful yet, and that one push might not be able to do much to Russia, why not keep them happy at us for now, so we can milk lots and lots of stuff from them. And when the time comes (we can decide on that later), then we attack. And, I do mean keep them HAPPY.