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[GS] Military Emergency called by Aggressor

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Heinage, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. Hans Castorp

    Hans Castorp Warlord

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    Wasn't there something in one of the previous streams about it being possible to propose special sessions of the WC by spending diplomatic favour? Would emergencies also be included in that category? I seem to recall them highlighting the large amount of diplomatic favour Hungary had a little earlier in the stream.
     
  2. Naeshar

    Naeshar Warlord

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    Yes, but the text said it was noted internationally and Hungary did not lose any favour, if I'm right.
     
  3. Heinage

    Heinage Khan

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    I hadn't thought of it like that.
    Perhaps I have been gaming under the assumption that it's okay to take cities in retribution for a war declared on me.
    Perhaps that is wrong. This may cause me to rethink things a bit.

    I guessed I'd be interested in how international diplomacy views this in real life, throughout history.
    If my views about taking cities in a defensive war is wrong, then I'm happy to concede the point.

    However, then there is still the sticking point of: why the grievance system which the Devs have talked openly about as a way of banking a certain value that you can use to take action which the wider community will regard as justified?
    If that's really the case, then shouldn't the emergency system follow suit and take grievances into account when determining whether an emergency is justified or not?
     
  4. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Emperor

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    Oh, only 2 cities from core hungary? How many would be appropriate? There has to be a counter and it's not like Carl just defended himself...
    This.

    To me it's fine to take some ransom when you get DOWed but you might have to face the consequences. On a global context this emergency absolutely makes sense (gamewise, of course - and even in RL this might happen) .
     
  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    In real life, if a ruler could, they would and screw the diplomacy but that changed over the years, in ancient times rulers really did not care and it was about strength and respect.
    Move forward into say the renaissance and industrial amd the concept of France being French is much stronger, more history and more relationships and complexity. ( like religion)
    While it would have been quite possible for Wellington to take France after Waterloo the repercussions afterward from other civs would have been much higher, even just shaving off a couple of leeetle cities would cause outrage. You were there to beat up a scoundrel, not become one yourself.
    In essence religion, rationalism and time had given countries more of a conscience.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
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  6. Hatchie

    Hatchie Chieftain

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    I was able to watch the stream now. It seemed to me the emergency was not called by any other leader specificaly, but the session was summoned because Ottomans took two cities in rapid succession.

    I think this really is realistic at least as how international relationships work nowadays. OSN calls special sessions basicly anytime a minor armed incident occurs, let alone some country occupying another countries city.

    Also the term “aggressor” is very relative. In pretty much any armed conflict both sides see their actions as justified and the opposing sides actions as aggression (even Nazies had their justifications for their actions as paper thin as those were)! And who the other nations deem as aggressor is largely dictated by which side they have better diplomatic relations with or against which side they have more grievences, rather than any arguments...

    One thing that worries me about this as a whole is such a international reaction to this in around 16th century when wars were common and lands changed hands rapidly... I hope such emergencies will scale in sensitivity and it will take more than this to warrant international response in this era...
     
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  7. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Emperor

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    Well, in the french german war 1870/1871 France declared and lost Alsace and it seemed ok...
    WW1+2 had a too big scale to be a good example, though. Technically GB and France declared War on Germany although that was just because Germany started a war without declaring... Same goes for Germany invading Belgium without a declaration and GB gave them an Ultimatum (WW1) ...

    Agreed but again - gamewise it makes sense - like WC in the medieval time...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2019
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  8. pgm123

    pgm123 Emperor

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    Neither of those. Both countries in question have civs in Civ VI and the event happened in 2008. I'd rather not get too far off topic.
     
  9. Hatchie

    Hatchie Chieftain

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    If you refer to Russia and Georgia - as much as I’m not fan of Russia - the situation there was more complicated. I think best transplanted to Civ VI mechanics, Russia took free cities that rebelled from Georgia...

    Which incidentaly is something I wish had more diplomatic impact in Civ VI. It is definitely possible (and enjoyable) to use Loyalty mechanic aggressively against another civ to make their cities rebel and either take them by force or wait for them to join you - similarly how Russia IRL used combination of propaganda and migration to create unrest in border areas of neighbouring countries and de facto take control of them. And as in IRL, civilizations losing ground this way shouldnot be ok with it!
     

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