Military Tactics T94-T120

[Bolkonski]

We're lucky with the way the coast lies, that we can block the way through on just one tile - I marked the spot in an earlier post with a green X

I think ships are the way to go and having a galley in the mix will also be good to make them nervous about us dropping units off ourselves.

Agreed for now and I would like to back them up with the fort in the future. Once the fort is within our borders we can heal ships in it and load units if we like.

 

[Kaleb]

Meh you're right. But still then we can defend the coast tile behind and only need to defend one land tile.

Now regarding this:

I suggest the following to take out or force SANCTA to move their Woodsman III before it gets a fortification bonus and is fortified by a Spearman and/or Chariot.

Spoiler :

Definitely NOT!! There is a worker on that forest with a spear, meaning they'll have a road and there are two chariots behind that on roads = 2 dead Kaz Axemen!!

That WoodIII Axe can fortify all he likes on that forest, don't see why that causes a problem for us.

It's best that Cav don't declare war for now so they can use the Chariot for scouting.

 

[Bolkonski]

When their borders pop (in 5 turns) we will have 2 squares to defend not 1 as they will be able to pass through ocean inside their borders...but.. ocean tiles do not get the 10% defensive bonus so if we have bigger numbers then we are OK...block coastal tile (we get the bonus) lete them move to ocean tile and attack.

I just checked the Civilopedia and there is no mention of this. Can galleys pass through an ocean in BTS?

 

[Bolkonski]

There is a worker on that forest with a spear, meaning they'll have a road and there are two chariots behind that on roads = 2 dead Kaz Axemen!!

There is no Worker on that forest with a Spearman, only the Woodsman III.

That WoodIII Axe can fortify all he likes on that forest, don't see why that causes a problem for us.

Well, it is there with that promotion for a reason, perhaps a rendezvous point to attack us across the plains.

It's best that Cav don't declare war for now so they can use the Chariot for scouting.

Actually it might be better for us if Cav did declare war now. SANCTA might have second thoughts. Also, it would get Cav engaged. We can use our Spy for scouting and behind enemy lines too.

 

[Indiansmoke]

@ Bolkonski...

1. yes boats can move in ocean squares within cultural borders

2. Kaleb means on the forest behind the axe..they road and kill our units

3. Why do you want to go on suicide mision to attack a woodman 3 axe on a forest? If we are going to attack it it should be by 2 chariots from our hills, not with axes! But I don't see any point at attacking him now anyway.

4. Scouting I think is best, unless Cav have more units here now, 1 solo chariot will not make much impact...I prefer the intel than 1 chariot.

 

[Bolkonski]

@ Bolkonski...

1. yes boats can move in ocean squares within cultural borders

2. Kaleb means on the forest behind the axe..they road and kill our units

3. Why do you want to go on suicide mision to attack a woodman 3 axe on a forest? If we are going to attack it it should be by 2 chariots from our hills, not with axes! But I don't see any point at attacking him now anyway.

4. Scouting I think is best, unless Cav have more units here now, 1 solo chariot will not make much impact...I prefer the intel than 1 chariot.

1. Interesting. I never knew that but it makes sense. Thanks.

2. I suspect that Axeman may be there on his own. Do we know for sure that there is a road behind the Axeman with the Woodsman II promotion?

3. To reiterate I have suggested an attack by Cav's chariot with, assuming success, follow up with our two Axemen if required for protection. I have said it is risky but I do not think it is suicidal. The point about attacking the unit now is that it will be stronger later and well nigh impossible to shift after it fortifies. Also, it gets Cav into the war, which I suggest would be to our advantage.

4. Agreed but we have to work with what we have got.

 

[Indiansmoke]

3. To reiterate I have suggested an attack by Cav's chariot with, assuming success, follow up with our two Axemen if required for protection. I have said it is risky but I do not think it is suicidal. The point about attacking the unit now is that it will be stronger later and well nigh impossible to shift after it fortifies. Also, it gets Cav into the war, which I suggest would be to our advantage.

Kaleb has marked the forest with the worker and the spear..if our axes move where you say they are dead...end of story.

 

[Bolkonski]

Kaleb has marked the forest with the worker and the spear..if our axes move where you say they are dead...end of story.

Is the worker building a road and if so, when will it be finished? If there will be no road by the next turn we will be OK.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Is the worker building a road and if so, when will it be finished? If there will be no road by the next turn we will be OK.

OK, I do not want to be rude...but


Mercy please!

We see a worker there and you want to risk taking our axes there...in the case that their worker was not building a road...to attack a triple forest axe...and even if we beat the forest axe we have nothing to cover our axes from their chariots!!!!!!!!

 

[Bolkonski]

Is the worker building a road and if so, when will it be finished? If there will be no road by the next turn we will be OK.

OK. I will answer my own question. If we do not know the answer we could ask Cav since they can see what that worker is doing. At the same time we could ask them if they would be interested in helping us take out the Woodsman III. I repeat that I suspect that unit is there alone.

Also, this is only a suggestion and not without risks but at times you have to take risks and sometimes they can pay off. If others wish to be conservative I respect that and they may well be right but we are not in a very good situation right now and we are going to have to do something fairly big to get out of it.

 

[damnrunner]

We should not attack the wood III axe unless it leaves the woods.

 

[Kaleb]

Bolko have you seen the screenshot where I mark out all the units around Angle?!

that worker is most likely building a road, no point in advancing further and losing 3 units (which we will) just to kill 1 wood 3 axe!

 

[Indiansmoke]

Since Cav are willing to give us gold, here is a plan I think it is worth discussing and presenting to them, instead of sending us military help.

We can get machinery in 5 (or 4?) with some cash from cav.

In 5-6 turns we can have 3 swords, 3 axes, 4 catas a chariot and 2 HA's. Upgrading those 3 swords in maces will cost 330 gold and the 3 axes 375 gold...total 705 gold.

If we can get 705 gold from allies we can upgrade them and go for that city.

Assuming all 3 teams make a combined 110 gold/turn at O% we need 7 turns to accumulate that gold. If that is 7 turns after teching machinery that is 12 turns from now..in 12 turns we can have even more units than the ones mentioned (even some elephants if we get ivory)...

 

[Kaleb]

Since Cav are willing to give us gold, here is a plan I think it is worth discussing and presenting to them, instead of sending us military help.

We can get machinery in 5 (or 4?) with some cash from cav.

In 5-6 turns we can have 3 swords, 3 axes, 4 catas a chariot and 2 HA's. Upgrading those 3 swords in maces will cost 330 gold and the 3 axes 375 gold...total 705 gold.

If we can get 705 gold from allies we can upgrade them and go for that city.

Assuming all 3 teams make a combined 110 gold/turn at O% we need 7 turns to accumulate that gold. If that is 7 turns after teching machinery that is 12 turns from now..in 12 turns we can have even more units than the ones mentioned (even some elephants if we get ivory)...

I would try and get enough gold so we can complete Machinery in 4 turns. That's probably about 100 which we could get from both MS and/or Cav.

I'd prefer it if Cav didn't slow down on researching Paper as once they get paper our base commerce will increase +14pt and we'll be able to trade resources (ie Ivory!) with MS. Plus we can see more of where SANCTA's interior borders are.
(btw the new city only increased our maintenance by +4)

So if we can get Machinery in 4 turns I think we should avoid building any more Axes or Swords and instead build Catapults, Spies, HAs and Forges.

Oskemen - will finish the forge on the turn we get Machinery which will be handy.
Shymkent We can do a 2 pop whip to finish the Catapult in 4 turns, so we can use the overflow for a Crossbow.
Aktau - one turn on the HA, then work on Stable doing a 2 pop whip once it's back to pop 5. will finish off two HAs quickly after that
Atyrau - whip a Catapult or go for a Forge? (I would really like a forge here...!)
Pavlodar - ?? Barracks? Forge? more units?

Comparing relative Military Strenghts between us and SANCTA:

The difference between our military strength is now down to 20,000

When you take our tech differences (Feudalism is worth 0, Construction 4000) this is 24,000 difference.

We have 2 barracks and 1 forge and I think we can reasonably assume that SANCTA have 3 of each which is worth 7,000 pts. And they have a lot more population which we'll guestimate at 4,000.

Meaning the difference in actual units is probably about 13,000. I'm sure they have more garrison units given the size of their cities and absence of religion so we are probably looking at SANCTA having the equivalent of 2 axes (6,000pts each) or 3 Chariots (4,000 pts) more than us at the moment.

So we aren't far behind them militarily at all at the moment.

 

[Bolkonski]

Upgrading units is very expensive and as Kaleb points out the commerce would be better used on tech.

I think we should avoid building any more Axes or Swords and instead build Catapults, Spies, HAs and Forges.

In general I am in agreement with this approach

 

[Indiansmoke]

Upgrading units is very expensive and as Kaleb points out the commerce would be better used on tech.

In general I am in agreement with this approach

What both you and Kaleb don't realize is the importance of speed... upgrading is by far the quickest way of getting a stack of maces to capture Angle...and every turn counts...by the time we make a stack by building maces from our forged cities Sancta will have both catapults and elephants.

Kaleb says we are not far in military...even more of a reason to look for the quickest way to invade, and the quickest way is gold from allies to upgrade...screw tech...we need land!

This is what the allies can do for us right now, give us money to upgrade our troops...and if done properly, it will be a killer.

 

[donsig]

I think it's worth proposing Smokey's upgrade plan but I do have my doubts that our allies will go for it. Smokey, are you suggesting we just ask for gold for upgrades and not to get machinery faster? Also, if our allies turn down the upgrade plan what is our best course?

 

[Bolkonski]

What both you and Kaleb don't realize is the importance of speed... upgrading is by far the quickest way of getting a stack of maces to capture Angle...and every turn counts...by the time we make a stack by building maces from our forged cities Sancta will have both catapults and elephants.

Yes, I certainly do realise the importance of speed, but I also realsie the importance of intelligence. It depends what is out there, which is why we need our spies in SANCTA. Also, with relatively few units we need to watch our back door.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Yes, I certainly do realise the importance of speed, but I also realsie the importance of intelligence. It depends what is out there, which is why we need our spies in SANCTA. Also, with relatively few units we need to watch our back door.

If we are quick enough inteligence is of no importance, there is nothing they can have that can stop 6-7 maces and a few catas...all they wil have is axes spears and chariots and maybe a longbow or 2.

If we wait however (do not get gold from allies or whatever) then inteligence will matter as they will propably have elephants and catas....that is my point

 

[Bolkonski]

If we are quick enough inteligence is of no importance, there is nothing they can have that can stop 6-7 maces and a few catas...all they wil have is axes spears and chariots and maybe a longbow or 2.

If we wait however (do not get gold from allies or whatever) then inteligence will matter as they will propably have elephants and catas....that is my point

Good point. We should get on with it..