Mind rating this America UA? Gain a free Settler upon entering a Golden Age.

[Galgus]

Would that be weak, balanced, or absurdly overpowered?

Trying to represent the push west associated with Manifest Destiny in a somewhat interesting way.

In theory, the fact that more cities = less = less = less free settlers would help balance it, but I'm not sure.

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Also, feel free to post your thoughts or suggestions on America's UA.

 

[Camikaze]

Although I suppose each new settler, when used, will cut back on the ability to get another Golden Age, I do think this does have the potential to be quite overpowered when you consider that you can start a Golden Age through means other than happiness. But then again, by the time you're getting Great Artists on a more regular basis, you don't necessarily want settlers; the benefit of building cities later in the game is quite marginal. In that sense, I don't think this UA would actually be all that fun. The novelty of being able to settle a large amount of territory would wear off with the realisation that these cities are a drag more often than not.

 

[Galgus]

Although I suppose each new settler, when used, will cut back on the ability to get another Golden Age, I do think this does have the potential to be quite overpowered when you consider that you can start a Golden Age through means other than happiness. But then again, by the time you're getting Great Artists on a more regular basis, you don't necessarily want settlers; the benefit of building cities later in the game is quite marginal. In that sense, I don't think this UA would actually be all that fun. The novelty of being able to settle a large amount of territory would wear off with the realisation that these cities are a drag more often than not.

The balance and how enjoyable this would actually be later on worry me as well.

In theory mass landgrabs early would snowball into an advantage, but even city spammers stop at some point.

Honestly, I'd be most worried about the cheese of using Liberty's Golden Age for an extra free settler.
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I really like the idea of a better UA representing the iconic American frontier days, but solidifying that into a fun and balanced bonus is vexing.

 

[Arachnofiend]

If you really want to simulate the "mass landgrabs" of 19th century America, your best route would likely be a Settler UU (Pioneer?) that's cheaper and can defend itself, therefore not requiring an escort.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Acctually the American UA is pretty fine as it is now because it makes the purchase land strategy more effective and cheaper

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

It would be more interesting and unique than their current UA. Might make America a more attractive civ to play. It would also synergize with the GAP promotion they tacked onto the minuteman. I think wide empires have been nerfed enough that the idea wouldn't be OP. Two, possibly 3 free settlers from liberty if you chose an artist as your free GP, might be a little crazy though. Chances are pretty good you'll be deleting some of those settlers later on in the game. Although settling for strategics isn't totally out of the question.

I'd love to see some of the vanilla civs get some more interesting features to compete with the expansion civs. Whether or not America's current UA is good or not seems to be totally dependant on gameplay styles but it is undeniably boring.

 

[Redaxe]

I'm not in favor largely because its hard to get multiple golden ages early (which is when you want to settle) & playing wide is going to run you in happiness problems quickly.
It's also easier to get more golden ages after ideologies but then New cities tend to be a drain on your civ.
Plus late game settlers become quite cheap to build/buy.

 

[Ortega]

i think it is a good idea, need to consider if not improving settler like giving him extra movment or the abillity to build improvments.
Eventually the amount of cities is controled by happiness therefore there is no concern that the Americans will have to many cities.
Another idea would be that railroads would not onl give hammers but alos gold.

 

[Crafty Bison]

I don't think it's that exciting (though a little better than the current one), but I don't think it's OP, mostly because It'll only be the first 1 or 2 that will be of value, and only one could be super early. Also as it's only when a golden age is started, (not added to), you'd have to wait till the old one finished before you get the new one. This could quite easily mean e.g. you miss Taj Mahal as a consequence. If you still want to temper it, make it happiness induced GAs. That's only a couple a game (unless you're India, which in this case is impossible), and you can't really get one before turn 100ish unless you really push, but then why weren't you expanding into your happiness excess?

 

[kaspergm]

I think it would be a great idea, if coupled with all Settlers having +1 movement. The free Settlers are great flavor, but in reality will have little impact on game: You get very few golden ages in early game where you want to found cities, and you want to found few cities in late game where you get golden ages. So I think the free Settler alone would be underpowered, but combined with the extra move could be fun to try.

 

[redwings1340]

Here's an interesting variation I have on this idea. Feel free to hate it.

Gain a free settler upon reaching the industrial era. After reaching the industrial era, gain a free Settler every 20 turns you spend in a golden age. Settlers have +1 movement, and +1 happiness per city

This is a much longer UA, but the idea is that America can explode wide starting at the industrial era, and can effectively play it with their bonuses. It has minor bonuses before this time, but can really become a late game power, particularly on terra maps or large maps, where expansion spots will still be available late game.

 

[Galgus]

Would it be more satisfying, though potentially overpowered, if the free Settler was a UU with the found city ability and some alternate use for later eras?

An actual Great Person bonus would probably be too much, but maybe they could also have the function of a Worker or expend to give a one-time GP boost in a city?

Ideally settlers in the late game wouldn't start to be an annoyance for players who aren't settling every square inch of the map.

Here's an interesting variation I have on this idea. Feel free to hate it.

Gain a free settler upon reaching the industrial era. After reaching the industrial era, gain a free Settler every 20 turns you spend in a golden age. Settlers have +1 movement, and +1 happiness per city

This is a much longer UA, but the idea is that America can explode wide starting at the industrial era, and can effectively play it with their bonuses. It has minor bonuses before this time, but can really become a late game power, particularly on terra maps or large maps, where expansion spots will still be available late game.

It seems like most of the fun in expanding comes early, and by the Industrial era the core of one's empire is already formed.

I'm worried that getting free Settlers wouldn't be much fun or use late-game.

Then again, I strictly play Marathon games only, so my view may be slanted.

I think it would be a great idea, if coupled with all Settlers having +1 movement. The free Settlers are great flavor, but in reality will have little impact on game: You get very few golden ages in early game where you want to found cities, and you want to found few cities in late game where you get golden ages. So I think the free Settler alone would be underpowered, but combined with the extra move could be fun to try.

Natural 's are hard to get early, but with Liberty's free and picking an Artist in the finisher this would give an extra two Settlers fairly early on, for a total of three Settlers from Liberty.

I could see the movement thing also, but it wouldn't make much difference to me as a Marathon player.

 

[kaspergm]

Would it be more satisfying, though potentially overpowered, if the free Settler was a UU with the found city ability and some alternate use for later eras?

Personally, I don't think this would be overpowered - I would suggest the name "Pioneer" named above, and give him the ability to add 2 population points to a city (which will consume the unit) as long as city size is below 5 (or some limit) before the action is taken. Although this of course still would not help you if all your cities are large, it would be an interesting way to promote fast growth of new cities. The limit size of the city was simply something I added to put a limit on abuse.

Natural 's are hard to get early, but with Liberty's free and picking an Artist in the finisher this would give an extra two Settlers fairly early on, for a total of three Settlers from Liberty.

I could see the movement thing also, but it wouldn't make much difference to me as a Marathon player.

Why on earth would anybody use Liberty finisher to pick a GA just to get a free Settler when you can instead pick a GE and get a free World Wonder? That would SO not be worth it, so I certainly wouldn't worry about that for balance.

 

[Galgus]

Personally, I don't think this would be overpowered - I would suggest the name "Pioneer" named above, and give him the ability to add 2 population points to a city (which will consume the unit) as long as city size is below 5 (or some limit) before the action is taken. Although this of course still would not help you if all your cities are large, it would be an interesting way to promote fast growth of new cities. The limit size of the city was simply something I added to put a limit on abuse.


Why on earth would anybody use Liberty finisher to pick a GA just to get a free Settler when you can instead pick a GE and get a free World Wonder? That would SO not be worth it, so I certainly wouldn't worry about that for balance.

Would it be overpowering to give the Pioneer to be expended for as a half-strength Political Treatise as the alternative to making a new city?

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

As an American I don't like either UU for America, but the UA is okay. Would've liked a gold bonus for cities on rivers, though...

I absolutely love the Pioneer idea: replaces settler (until the late Modern or early Atomic era), +1 movement, can melee fight (mostly barbarians), some kind of food/growth "boomtown" bonus for each new city (but not the first) for a certain amount of time (kind of like a free "we-love-the-king day")

 

[Galgus]

As an American I don't like either UU for America, but the UA is okay. Would've liked a gold bonus for cities on rivers, though...

I absolutely love the Pioneer idea: replaces settler (until the late Modern or early Atomic era), +1 movement, can melee fight (mostly barbarians), some kind of food/growth "boomtown" bonus for each new city (but not the first) for a certain amount of time (kind of like a free "we-love-the-king day")

As a fellow American I love the Minuteman UU, but the other is just too late in the game.

Anyway, I'd like something like the Pioneer, if designed well.

 

[Fabio1701]

I personally think the mass land grabs of the 19th century is more simulated by purchasing tiles at a reduced rate during a golden age. Or perhaps even being able to buy land owned by a city state within one of your city's radius! Simulating how the Native Americans were bought of their land for a few trinkets, whether they wanted it or not.

A settler is just... well... just another settler and not very unique and interesting IHMO.

 

[Galgus]

I personally think the mass land grabs of the 19th century is more simulated by purchasing tiles at a reduced rate during a golden age. Or perhaps even being able to buy land owned by a city state within one of your city's radius! Simulating how the Native Americans were bought of their land for a few trinkets, whether they wanted it or not.

A settler is just... well... just another settler and not very unique and interesting IHMO.

Thus my bit about it needing to be designed well: to feel fun to use and fit
thematically.

The current in-game UA is actually quite thematic for America representing the Lewis and Clark expeditions and those like it as well as the Louisiana Purchase.

Its problem is that it is sub-par in overall utility compared to other UAs and not really fun to use.
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America definitely has a history of determined settlers with the push west and the influence of the frontier, but that is only half of the equation on whether or not a Settler UU can work.

 

[Arachnofiend]

As a fellow American I love the Minuteman UU, but the other is just too late in the game.

Anyway, I'd like something like the Pioneer, if designed well.

I really wouldn't want to get rid of the B-17, it represents America's 20th century glory days. There has to be something that represents the time period that makes the United States worthy of more than having some of its ports as city-states.

 

[Galgus]

I really wouldn't want to get rid of the B-17, it represents America's 20th century glory days. There has to be something that represents the time period that makes the United States worthy of more than having some of its ports as city-states.

America was a significant power before the World Wars, though admittedly very isolationist for a long time.

I certainly wouldn't remove the Minuteman since its such an iconic part of America's history.

I suppose another way to do it would be to just mod the UA without changing the UU's, which I did with a simple (by comparison) mod earlier.