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Mines or Lumbermill

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Civnerd, Oct 13, 2010.

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Tile improvement efficiency: Mines or Lumbermill

  1. Lumbermill

    59 vote(s)
    76.6%
  2. Mines

    18 vote(s)
    23.4%
  1. Civnerd

    Civnerd Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    I personally think the Lumbermill nets you a greater hammer/food ratio. A mine cost 2 food to work and delivers 3 hammers. For the same 2 food you can work 2 lumbermill (since a forest always produce 1 food, so effectively, it cost you a netto 1 food to work) and delivers 4 hammers total. In late game you get +1 hammer on lumbermill, so 6 hammers total, twice the mine output!
     
  2. Slowpoke

    Slowpoke The Mad Modder

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,321
    Basically, lumbermills are only for non-hill forests.

    Hill mine = 3 prod -2 food (work). Net 1 yield

    plains mine = 2 prod - 2 food. Net 0 yield

    plains/forest lumbermill = 2 prod -1food. Net 1 yield

    In general, if you have maritime CSs, the food actually is worse than the production. Food is even worse if you're keeping your pop low to maximise your happiness per city.

    I'd say, if you're india who benefits the most from food, lumbermills are always the way to go, though.
     
  3. aimlessgun

    aimlessgun King

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    782
    Assuming we are talking about the choice for a forested hill. Kind of depends on how much you expect to get out the upgraded mills. In some sort of victory where you spend significant time in the modern age the mill is probably better, since the hammer return will greatly outstrip the chopping hammers. Hammer early are better than hammers late, but the difference would be large enough to trump that maxim if you were going for a space victory or something.

    EDIT: I guess I suppose I should say the yield return since it's a hammer loss until the upgrade and a food gain. I guess it depends on how your happiness looks and how many maritimes you have. Few maritimes and plentiful happy, I'd take the mill. Otherwise go for the hammers IMO.
     
  4. nodule

    nodule Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2010
    Messages:
    28
    I haven't yet found a situation where I'd want to use a mine. Riverside? Farm. Forested? Lumbermill. Non-forested? Probably trading post.

    I suppose you could build a mine on a non-forested, non-riverside hill in a city where you really wanted to maximize production, but that situation doesn't seem too common
     
  5. The Great Apple

    The Great Apple Big Cheese

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,361
    Location:
    Oxford, England
    One thing it's important to remember is the high tiles available:population ratio a lot of cities managed. For this reason it's often best to actually diversify a bit so that the city has options.

    That said, I tend to do the following:

    Trading post on all non-river [forest] hills (for GA boost).
    Mine/Trading post on river hill
    Trading post/Lumber mill on forest river hill

    Of course, if all my river hills are forested I might throw out some mines early on. I also find there comes a stage shortly before railroad where my workers have nothing to do and it's possible to change around improvements on river hills. Same is true after railroads have been built.
     
  6. Dunkah

    Dunkah Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,189
    Location:
    Just north of Boston
    I find that even with one wroker per city that there are more improvements built in hexes than I have population to work. So by adding mines to hills I can switch labor to get a production boost when needed.
    Population usually stays behind growth of cultural borders until late-mid game...
    Once the population starts to catch up with tile improvements I will take a closer look at each city to maximize whatever it is that I am trying to produce at the time.
     
  7. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,316
    Assumption: you have available grassland tiles, and that is your source of food

    Early game
    1 Lumbermill gives 2 hammers, and costs 2 pop (1 for mill, 1 for Farm)

    1 Mine gives 3 hammers, and costs 3 pop (1 for mine, 2 for farms)
    so on a per pop basis they are just as good.

    If you are using maritime food though, the Mill is 2:1, the mine is 3:2 so
    Farm Food... they are equal
    Maritime... Mills win.. although you need more of them

    If you are terrain/pop limited then mines win


    After Civil Service/Fertilizer
    Mill= 2 hammers for 1.5 pop: 1.333
    Mine= 3 hammers for 2 pop: 1.5

    Farm food....Mine wins
    Maritime...Mill still wins
    Pop/Terrain limitation...Mine wins

    After steam power of course the mill is better in every way
     
  8. Supr49er

    Supr49er 2011 Thunderfall Cup

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    Jan 25, 2006
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    Location:
    Bear Flag Republic
    I mine only non-forested hills. (and resources ;) )
     
  9. vendur

    vendur Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    I play on deity/standard maps, and steam power always comes way too late. Game is mostly over by then and your production ability is usually not all thet important.
     
  10. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Australia
    On Archipelago maps, where hammers are already fairly rare, you almost always will want to go with mines unless you have no access to maritime city states.
     
  11. Collic

    Collic Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    112
    lumbermill. I think mines could use an extra hammer (maybe with a tech) to make up for the lack of food.
     
  12. Jharii

    Jharii King

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    696
    Location:
    Walled Lake, MI
    This. I'll even tend to use trading posts on hills and forests even if they are on a river.
     

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