1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Ministry of Defense, Term 7

Discussion in 'Team Epsilon' started by peter grimes, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    13,314
    Location:
    Queens, New York
    The discussion for Defense issues during Term 7 is to take place here.
     
  2. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    So I jsut Ran a whole Bunch of Simulations and guess what?

    Barb Cities on Prince get Created with 2 Warriors. (Not Archers)

    Which Means even If they have built 1 archer, Our Army won't have a Problem Tearing through them. :goodjob:


    That Being Said, How do you want to do the Promotions?

    We have

    1 Catapult that can get 2
    1 Catapult that can get 1
    1 Axeman that can get 1
    1 Axeman with none.


    If there are 3 units in the city I would propose:

    Giving Catapult 1 Collateral Promotion and Attacking. (might be a suicide)
    Giving Next Catapult Cit Raider X 2 and Attacking. (Will win even against archer after Cata 1)

    Clean up with Axeman.
     
  3. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    13,314
    Location:
    Queens, New York
    I'd like other people to weigh in here...

    Will the city auto-raze?

    I would think that we want to gain promotions for Axemen before the catapults. Unless, of course, we are looking at unfavorable odds (for me, that means <90&#37;).

    I would promote the first Axe to Com1, then clean up with the second.

    However, as stated before, I'm really open to input. And, we need to keep in mind which units we want to be strong in the future.
     
  4. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    That Is very true (About the Auto Raze :sad: )

    That Beign Said I suggest the Office Of Defence Declare that we not Attack until the City is at Size 2. (Won't Auto Raze :) )

    As For Promotions and what not, Given that we can already build maceman promotions for axemen are almost irrelevant. As Far As Catapults go, again they are quicly becoming obsolete and after this siege of a city I doubt we will use any unit for anything other than MP.

    To Figure out When the Barb City will gorw to Size 2... I can do it tommorow but Basically it is:

    Turn the City is founded + 2 :food: per turn until the growth which Teh numebr escapes me right now. (Assuming the are working the Grassland forest)
     
  5. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    Ok I jsut Crunched the Numbers.

    The barbarian City was founded on Turn 113 (50 B.C.)

    It takes 22 :food: to hit size 2. Assuming they have been working a tile at +2 :food: per turn, then it will take 11 turns to hit size 2.


    113 + 11 = Turn 124.


    Don't you just love it when timing works out ;)
     
  6. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    6,489
    He's welcome to stay in the holy city until he has another mission. :)
     
  7. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    13,314
    Location:
    Queens, New York
    I think we need to have a discussion about the type of garrison we plan on keeping around after take this barb city. Not just the garrison in that town, but in all of our towns.

    I don't agree that just because we can build Macemn Axes with promotions are useless. The Axemen may be upgraded, thus leveraging the value of the promotions they already have earned.

    Catapults with barrage promotions are integral to keeping an invading attack force weak. They will never go obsolete assuming we can muster the cash to keep them upgraded to the latest tech.

    Which means that, after the seige of this city, we will have a couple of promoted axes or a couple of promoted cats. I think the promotions on the catapults will be of greater long-term significance. Unless you're running Theocracy and Vassalge it can be very tricky to get the +Barrage and +Accuracy promotions onto the 4 catapults required to eliminat the cultural defense of a town in 1 turn.

    I agree completely that these units are not likely to see battle again for a very very long time. But when they do, their promotions earned here will certainly make a difference.

    I'll try and run some tests and plot some odds for our exploits on turn 124. I've never even opened worldbuilder before, so any tips are appreciated :)
     
  8. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    As of Right now All we need for a garrison in any city is 1 unit + units to keep the peace. The only city where we could get attacked (without notice) is Sunset Fortress.

    Going Forward all Coastal Cities will need Higher Garisons (but not until other teams have discovered Astronomy). But even then if we have the proper "scout" boats out units can be diverted.

    As a General Rule of Thumb it is much much cheaper to just build new units.
    However An Axeman with the Melee promotion would be useful to kill other barb axemen for the next 20 or so turns. That being said he could go out into the fog (around Ironworks) as line of sight.

    You can always take 6 ;)

    The barb city will have Warriors in it. 3, maybe 4. Wit hthe units we are taking we will get a total of 4 exp.
    The catapult with 2 promotions will still be at that level
    The otehr catapult will get to level 2
    One Axeman will get to level 2 (read melee promotion ;) )
    The Other Axeman (KodKod) will get to level 1.

    As soon as we switch to Theocracy (next turn :D ) all units produced will be on par for the same promotions.

    Well It is hard with barbs...because you have to drop down a settler and hope that they build a city. The easiset way it to make 1 tile put the settler down, exit the world builder let the barbs build the city, then reenter and edit the land. :)

    Also I don't mean to seem negative, sorry if it came out that way, I could be very very wrong. :(
     
  9. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    Lots of Choices this turn.

    What Does Chester Cheatah Do? (Fortify in the jungle?) Attack? Move North Of the Road?

    What Do we do around the barbs? Wait for the rest of the troops?

    Peter Grimes Is Scheduled to Move NW where KodKod is (Safe from Warriors there) ;)

    My Suggestion would be to Move PeterGrimes Have KodKod Fortify and wait for the rest of the troops. Technically we could even turn around our Other Axeman (Now that we know it is 3 warriors for sure) to free up Road Guard to get into the jungle. ;)
     
  10. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    13,314
    Location:
    Queens, New York
    I would think it smarter to swap Chester Cheetah for Gatekeeper. Bring CC back into Sunset Fortress, and bring out Gatekeeper. After slaughtering the barb, Gatekeeper can retire to Sunset Fortress, and Chester can head back for MP duty in EE.

    Waiting for the rest of the troops up north is the safe thing to do. But I wonder if we could squeeze some extra XP out of the barbs by moving KodKod adjacent to the barb town. We'll have the defensive bonus of the forest, plus our unit ability. We should not have a problem.

    I agree with Memphus and DaveMcW that Road Guard should start living up to his name, and head for the bend in the road where it meets the river, then heal and fortify.

    Is SnowLeopard heading for MP duty in Eternal Eye?

    Thoughts? Opinions?? Suggestions???
     
  11. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    My Concern with Swapping Gate Keepr For Chester is that I don't think the barb warrior will attack our Axeman.
    Instead he will pillage the road which is the worst possible outcome.

    To Me CHester should stay where he is. If the barb Warrior Attacks great he will win (if he loses Then Gate Keeper can jump out and finish off the warrior)

    As for up north We get mroe EXP for Attacking than Defending.
    Also If KodKod Moves onto the forest then Peter Is left undefended on the Open Plains.
     
  12. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    6,489
    There is a Piffle spearman near Sunset Fortress.

    I'd prefer to keep the axeman for defense, maybe we should even add more units.
     
  13. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    8,198
    Location:
    Washington State (GMT -8)
    I don't think we have anything to fear from Piffle at the moment ... they're probably just trying to see if they can get back up the peninsula&#8230; they wouldn&#8217;t know we&#8217;ve had Sunset Fortress there.

    They just signed a major deal with us, we have a guaranteed peace deal till 500 AD, they must know our power score is above theirs, at least check they still don&#8217;t know they have iron, and besides all that&#8230; if they were going to attack us, I&#8217;m pretty sure they&#8217;d have sent more than a spearman.

    Unless you want to keep the Axe there to defend from barbarians? Even then, I don&#8217;t see the logic behind adding even more units to the defense there.
    Just the 2 cent view from the Foreign Department!
    :salute:
     
  14. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    13,314
    Location:
    Queens, New York
    Okay - Good points, gentlemen!

    GateKeeper can stay put, Chester should attack. If the attack fails, then GateKeeper should come out and finish the job.

    That Piffle Spear is no concern for now. However, I am inclined to agree with DaveMcW that we should work towards a larger show of force there - at least until we have extended our Peace with Piffle. 500AD is not that far away anymore!

    Up north, I thought Peter would be safe, as KodKod would be blocking the only path that the barbs could use to get at Peter? We shouldn't risk leaving Peter undefended just to get an experience point or two, so let's wait for the rest of the attack force.

    I'll post these as Official Orders in a while, to allow more discussion.
     
  15. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    8,198
    Location:
    Washington State (GMT -8)
    2 Quick points...

    1) 500 AD is kind of sneaking up on us right now - I'll contact Piffle and see about extending it... but really, our tech deal works pretty well as a defacto peace treaty... and it'll last for quite some time yet.

    2) I'm not necessarily opposed to a buildup of forces in Sunset Fortress, but Piffle (or anyone else for that matter) won&#8217;t be able to see it &#8211; so it doesn&#8217;t do us any psychological good. If there&#8217;s no solid military reason to fear an attack at Sunset Fortress, it just seems like the forces might be better put elsewhere&#8230;
     
  16. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    6,489
    What are the odds of winning an attack against a barbarian in jungle? :eek:

    I don't think barbarians pillage roads in neutral territory.
     
  17. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    13,314
    Location:
    Queens, New York
    The odds are not that good. But here's the thing:
    If the barb doesn't pillage, and doesn't attack, then we are back to attacking him with axeman GateKeeper.... which is what I would do in my own game. However, I dont' have nearly as much experience in these matters as other people here :)

    General_W makes a good point about Piffle not being able to see the units we have stationed in Sunset Fortress, which does sort of make them paper tigers. But with Road Guard heading down that way, we'll at least have two Axemen on hand.
     
  18. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,233
    Location:
    Canada
    With 3 Experience we have the potential to Get...

    3 Units Promotions (if The proper Units Attack)

    How does the Office wish to Proceed? Also do we wish to begin the festivities next turn? (we are pretty low on :gold:)
     
  19. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    13,314
    Location:
    Queens, New York
    I'm not sure what is meant by "if the proper Units Attack", but in any case we don't have 3 units ready, only two... Is it not better to wait until we are able to take the town in one turn?

    But if we decide to attack this turn, I would attack with the cat first, to get some bombard damage. Then the axe.

    Let's finally rename the catapults to Crushing Fear and Impending Doom.

    And finally, I apologize for not having 'officially' posted orders a few times. But it can be very difficult to accomplish that when the save is played as soon as it comes in, without allowing any time to take a peek, post a relevent screenshot, and discuss the best course of action. Since I can only open saves while I'm at home (GMT 2400 - 0400, 1200 - 1330) that means I am reliant on screenshots during all other hours. If you like, I can post a copy of the salient parts of discussion into the Turn Orders thread, and edit it occaisionally throughout the day. But that could lead to some confusion, as discussion may progress, without me having a chance to update the Orders. Any thoughts on how we can make this go smoother?
     
  20. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    8,198
    Location:
    Washington State (GMT -8)
    This is very similar to the problem we faced in the Civ3 MTDG if I recall correctly. Although it was helped somewhat by a frequently slower turn cycle &#8211; even if we took longer with our turns, there's still generally not enough time to really discuss a course of action.

    I think the best thing (and maybe the only thing) that can be done if for the Defense Minister to plan long range activities and deployments. Fortunately, because we're last in the turn cycle, we do get notice of any impending barbarian action to allow time for you to post orders.

    Still, no matter what, the Defense ministry will always remain fluid, as there's just no way to predict what our opponents will do. Hence the need to stick to broad outlines, and general troop deployment around the Empire.

    My 2 cents. Hope that was helpful and not just all obvious stuff.
    :salute:
     

Share This Page