Missing Units in BTS

Catapult Trireme for Classical Era.
2 :strength:, 2 :move:
Can Combard City Defenses (-5% per turn)

(Of course a normal Trireme would also get the +50% bonus against this)

This would make early naval units more important. Rename it if you like.

Quadreme?
i was thinking more along the lines of medieval period
 
Did this sort of thing ever happen to you?

An enemy naval task force is approaching my territory. A loaded carrier, half dozen destroyers, two battleships. I gather my ships and air units and plan to catch them on the approach. I have a sub dancing around behind them, which is how I spotted them in the first place.

I've got three battleships and a pile of destroyers to hammer them with, and should win OK. But I worry about losses. In the end, though, I only lost one battleship (the first one with barrage-3) and a destroyer. My sub killed a wounded battleship with no damage. Oh, and I also lost two bombers to the jet fighters, with no damage to the ships.

I can just imagine the bomber pilots' conversation:

Pilot, "My daddy used to fly these in the war."

Copilot "So did my grandpappy. I suppose I could have flown one of those jet planes, but I just wanted to bomb things."

Pilot, "Too bad that nobody figured out how to put jet engines on a bomber. Ever read the loss reports? Not a single unit escaped unscathed last year."

Copilot "Does that mean we're on a suicide mission?"

Pilot "Our nation needs us. Surely 40 year old weapons are still good enough to take on today's defenses."

Copilot "I should have joined the navy. They at least get the latest technology."

Pilot "Next time, we'll just sign up for recon missions. Good thing that it's against the rules to attack recon planes."



Once Jet Fighters show up, Bombers are pretty near dead meat. There is little chance for them to survive engaging Jet Fighters. Now, if you have enough Jet Fighters of your own, maybe you can beat them back and let the Bombers through. But the jet age doesn't have the same balance as the earlier flight era. There is no Bomber capable of competing directly against jet fighters (like the Bombers do) until Stealth.

Stealth is a very advanced tech -- just shy of future tech. It can be a long time between getting Advanced Flight and Stealth, depending on your path through the tech tree. Bombers turn into recon-only craft, because it simply isn't cost effective to use them in areas guarded by Jet Fighters.
 
Well if anti fighters naval ships like destroyers, projected a control area like sams an mobile sams do, and they were next to the carrier they would have a chance to intercept the fighters on route to intercept your bombers
 
I don't like Mechanized Infantry. I'd rather see an Armored Personnel Carrier that is a defense only transport for Gunpowder units and has 2 move so it can keep up with Tanks. I think the introduction of handheld automatic weapons isn't properly represented in the game. I would like to see Gunpowder units to be upgraded after a certain Modern tech (though at this moment I'm not sure which).
 
I would like to see mercenaries in the game. I suppose Privateers are similar, but I'd like to see it expanded. For example, you can attach it as a building to a certain technology (Currency being the most obvious choice), which lets you create a specific number of instant units that cost gold instead of hammers, have higher upkeep costs, and also have a unit limit like Missionaries, so they can't be spammed. I feel they have more entitled to be in the game than corporations, to be honest, just given how much longer they've been around.

I think it would be nice also as a sort of bonus unit, when you're surprise attacked or on your last legs. In the same vein, a citizen militia would be nice, for after you've lost a few cities and the people know their empire is on its last legs. We've all had to deal with the city jumping wars when the enemy is all but finished, and it would be nice to add some excitement and unpredictability to that. You could send a few Infantry and Artillery to finish off some puny village when 5 mercenaries and a militia pop up to defend it. :D
 
I would like to see mercenaries in the game. I suppose Privateers are similar, but I'd like to see it expanded. For example, you can attach it as a building to a certain technology (Currency being the most obvious choice), which lets you create a specific number of instant units that cost gold instead of hammers, have higher upkeep costs, and also have a unit limit like Missionaries, so they can't be spammed. I feel they have more entitled to be in the game than corporations, to be honest, just given how much longer they've been around.

I think it would be nice also as a sort of bonus unit, when you're surprise attacked or on your last legs. In the same vein, a citizen militia would be nice, for after you've lost a few cities and the people know their empire is on its last legs. We've all had to deal with the city jumping wars when the enemy is all but finished, and it would be nice to add some excitement and unpredictability to that. You could send a few Infantry and Artillery to finish off some puny village when 5 mercenaries and a militia pop up to defend it. :D
I think you ge the citizen milta if you raze a city.
 
14c cannon - inbetween trebs and cannons.

Battlecruiser / Dreadnaught - a ship stronger then a destroyer but without detection and interception.

Atomic bomb - Range of Bombers, SDI can't intercept but fighters/SAMs can. Earlier then ICBMs.

Huey / Transport Helicopter - Weaker Helicopter but can carry 1 gunpowder troop and can take cities.

Fighter Bomber (F/A-18 Hornet etc) - can be carried on a carrier, pretty much multi role plane but not as good as in the primary roles of a jet fighter or a stealth bomber.
 
aegis cruiser (air defence at sea)
mortar (between trech and cannon)
jet bomber
nuc.missile sub
2 types of carriers (early 1 and late 1)
special forces (combo of paratroopers and marines)
HQ unit (tech radio) gives a bonus to the units in a stack
 
I definitely agree that a lot of units should be added for historical purpose.

I think to most properly include everything while enhancing not detracting from game play would be to adapt the weapon/chassis system from Alpha Cen. include unique weapons for each civ. Then you can have a proper weapondry evolution.
 
First for me is the early gunpowder using bombardment weapons. It seems glaringly strange that my riflemen are accompanied by catapults, just because I haven't run up to Steel yet. But even for the first generation of musketmen, gunpowder siege weapons accompanied them. This needn't be much better than a catapult, as it ignored walls/castles as a gunpowder tech unit.

Yeah, the Ottoman siege of Constantinople was largely successful because of ENORMOUS cannons made of bronze. That was over 600 years ago, not long after muskets arrived on the scene.
 
Cannon actually predate Muskets. Heck, shrapnel bombs and rocket weapons predate Muskets.
 
I would love to see cruisers put into the game, also to rexamine the stats for ships so they are better suited to the production they cost. I find that i am always buying Battleships as it makes ecconmic sense, when actually, i want to feel that i can use all of the ships avaible.
 
I`d like to see the Biplane added. The Zeppelins should be replaced by the Catalina Flying Boat as a recon/ASW plane, which can be upgraded to Orion or AWACS plane for recon or ASW.

I`d also like to see the marksman promotion - ability to pick the defending unit in a stack.
 
Cannon actually predate Muskets. Heck, shrapnel bombs and rocket weapons predate Muskets.

I dunno...the early hand cannons and such could also be considered precursors to muskets. Shrapnel bombs and rocket weapons are much different from either, imo. Regardless, you could say muskets and cannons came about more or less at the same time. Certainly the metal cylinders were possible as soon as bronze casting was perfected, so all that remained was the discovery of gunpowder.

I`d also like to see the marksman promotion - ability to pick the defending unit in a stack.

Oooo, I like that. As you move up the line (MM1, 2, 3) you have an increased chance to kill the unit and decreased chance of being injured during an attack.
 
There is a clear problem with the early gunpowder units. However, I would not try to "fix" the muskeman at all but just remove the unit and replace it with some early gunpowder bombardment unit.

While handheld gunpowder weapons were available at nearly the same time as early cannons, they had markedly different impacts. Early cannons revolutionarised siege warfare (everyone here probably knows about Constantinopole's walls). However, it took a lot longer for handheld gunpowder weapons to make an impact in open field of battle. They did not represent much of an improvement over crossbows except in very specialized circumstances. Thus, it seems totally illogical to get an infantry unit instead of bombardment unit out of the discovery of the gunpowder.

On the same note, I would change the effect of walls. The fact that all gunpowder units totally ignore them seems really silly. I would rather change them so that gunpowder artillery units have double bombardment strength against fortified cities but normal gunpowder units are normally affected by the walls. Even nowadays taking fortified city without proper artillery support is nearly suicidal.

Then there are the early warships that seem also totally out of wack. The fact that destroyers are the next step after ironclads is silly. They became real combatants with enough power to affect naval engagements only after the development of realible torpedoes and their specific purpose was to kill the big battleships of the day. In Civ we know have destroyers without their actual target until the development of battleship.

My suggestion to changing this would be to remove ironclads. They are rather useless in game and historically their biggest impact was to spark the development of pre-dreadnought battleships. Combatwise they had very short and actually quite limited impact. Instead add "early battleship" to railroad technology with speed 4 (equal to frigate making itself usable unlike the ironclad), strength 35. Add "+50% when attacking early battleship" to destroyer. Now you would have a real, powerful warship instead of that barely-floating piece of junk in game. You also see the real impetus that produced the destroyer (attacking enemy battleships with torpedoes and protecting yours from the same). The modern battleship with slightly increased power, clear increase in speed, and lack of vulnarability to destroyers nicely represents the upgrade to post-dreadnought fast battleships that occured shortly before WWI. The destroyer also gets its new target, the submarine, at the same time representing the change of role that occured with destroyers.
 
I have one word for you, just one word....

DOGS! :D

Yes dogs - they were used for warfare by so many nations for such a long time... where are they in the game?

Doesn't he Spanish Conquistador have dogs with it? Maybe it used to?
 
There is a clear problem with the early gunpowder units. However, I would not try to "fix" the muskeman at all but just remove the unit and replace it with some early gunpowder bombardment unit.

While handheld gunpowder weapons were available at nearly the same time as early cannons, they had markedly different impacts. Early cannons revolutionarised siege warfare (everyone here probably knows about Constantinopole's walls). However, it took a lot longer for handheld gunpowder weapons to make an impact in open field of battle. They did not represent much of an improvement over crossbows except in very specialized circumstances. Thus, it seems totally illogical to get an infantry unit instead of bombardment unit out of the discovery of the gunpowder.

On the same note, I would change the effect of walls. The fact that all gunpowder units totally ignore them seems really silly. I would rather change them so that gunpowder artillery units have double bombardment strength against fortified cities but normal gunpowder units are normally affected by the walls. Even nowadays taking fortified city without proper artillery support is nearly suicidal.

Then there are the early warships that seem also totally out of wack. The fact that destroyers are the next step after ironclads is silly. They became real combatants with enough power to affect naval engagements only after the development of realible torpedoes and their specific purpose was to kill the big battleships of the day. In Civ we know have destroyers without their actual target until the development of battleship.

My suggestion to changing this would be to remove ironclads. They are rather useless in game and historically their biggest impact was to spark the development of pre-dreadnought battleships. Combatwise they had very short and actually quite limited impact. Instead add "early battleship" to railroad technology with speed 4 (equal to frigate making itself usable unlike the ironclad), strength 35. Add "+50% when attacking early battleship" to destroyer. Now you would have a real, powerful warship instead of that barely-floating piece of junk in game. You also see the real impetus that produced the destroyer (attacking enemy battleships with torpedoes and protecting yours from the same). The modern battleship with slightly increased power, clear increase in speed, and lack of vulnarability to destroyers nicely represents the upgrade to post-dreadnought fast battleships that occured shortly before WWI. The destroyer also gets its new target, the submarine, at the same time representing the change of role that occured with destroyers.


I agree an early cannon is needed, however the musketmen bridges the gap between longbows/crossbows an riflemen, it does need to be there, and the only fix it needs is for longbows/crossbows to be able to upgrade to it, in the way every old unit has the option to upgrade to a newer one or choice of newer ones, lack of a unit upgrade path is the only big issue affecting the musketmen, while early gunpowder units did not historically replace bow an arrow immediatley, they did over time, since civ operates in accelerated historical timeframes that musketmen represents all the early musket units up to rifles, so it's completely illogical it has no prev unit upgrade path.

Late game naval combat could use a proper unit counter system like the one on early sail ships but thats a whole other issue
 
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