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Mitt Romneys Tax Returns

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Aroddo, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    I always knew Barack Obama was anti-women!

    You are aware of the concept of rhetorical devices, right?

    I did not ask this question to get your answer to it. It's not a question I would ask. I asked it to represent the reasoning of those who are asking for Romney's tax returns and will draw their conclusion if he doesn't.

    But I know you well enough to realize that you will use any flimsy justification to not actually engage anyone's argument even though it should be crystal clear to you what it is.
     
  2. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Ouch :lol:
     
  3. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    And his tax returns will not demonstrate that he is good enough.

    Then don't ask it.

    The majority of Americans are doubtful that global warming is being caused by humans. You should cater to their reasoning.....right?

    Lots of Americans (including myself) have helped themselves to Chick Fil-A's tasty Hate Chicken sandwiches in the last two days. You should approve of their decision to enjoy tasty hate. Right?

    Feel free to drop this whole line of reasoning any time you want. You're getting stuck on the fact that a bunch of voters are demanding Romney release his returns--and you're missing the really important question, which is whether they should. If your goal is "to prove Romney's not a Nixon" the answer is obviously no.

    Mmmm.....I think I'll skip this one. :D
     
  4. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    So you don't know what a rhetorical device is?

    Sometimes a question can be used to make a statement better than simply making a statement.

    If their votes are going to be important to your campaign, and you can do so without compromising on your agenda, yes.

    If their votes are going to be important to your campaign, and you can do so without compromising on your agenda, yes.

    It seems there is a misunderstanding regarding "my goal". All I'm saying is what I think Romney should do to win the election. And I don't even want Romney to win the election (in this way I'm happy you're producing many options of rationalization for his current behavior).

    As the examples above show, I'm arguing completely from a Machiavellian perspective.

    It's nice that you'd prefer if Romney decided to educate the public about what they should care about in an election, but that's not how you win elections, and you've hardly gained anything by a better educated electorate if you've lost because you surely won't run again.
     
  5. peter grimes

    peter grimes ... Retired Moderator

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    :crazyeye:

    This is beyond wrong - the IRS is extremely short-staffed. They rely on computers to scan all the returns, only sending up red-flagged ones for humans to evaluate. Of those, not every one that has a red flag is pursued to the ends of the earth for every 'crime'. There are only so many resources, and the extremely wealth have extremely complicated returns prepared by professional tax-avoidance-consultants. Sneaking something past the IRS is not at all uncommon.

    Not being charged with tax evasion (or fraud, or whatever) is NOT positive evidence of being crime-free.

    EDIT: I misread your post. Apologies.

    Besides - this guy has been preparing to run for President for 8 years. He KNOWS that releasing returns is customary. He KNEW this was going to come up. Why on earth didn't he act like a candidate should and do everything on the up-and-up. I think it's because his greed for money outweighs his desire for the presidency.
     
  6. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    This claim is at least logically true, it is not very useful though. I don't think there is anything that can prove that a person is not a crook. That doesn't mean we should give up on determining if a candidate is a crook.

    For example, criminal records* can not prove that someone is not a crook. He may just not have been caught/convicted. However, checking the criminal records of a candidate seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do if you want to determine if he's a good candidate.

    So the fact that tax returns can not prove that someone is not a crook is irrelevant to the question at hand.

    Note: I don't necessarily agree that presidential candidates have to release their tax records to the public. It's not customary in the Netherlands and I don't see that as problematic, but I also think (which may not be through!) that we have less tax loopholes over here and our IRS functions pretty well. Our elections are also less about money, which kinda makes this less important.
    However, I do think that the discussion is better of if the arguments are made correctly and rigorously.


    * Are the criminal records of presidential candidates checked?
     
  7. Quackers

    Quackers The Frog

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    If thats true, it tells you all you need to know.
     
  8. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/16/1110448/-Romney-Demanded-to-See-Ted-Kennedy-s-Tax-Returns

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...alled-for-tax-transparency-in-past-campaigns/
     
  9. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    I'm starting to warm up to this Romney character.
     
  10. LucyDuke

    LucyDuke staring at the clock

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    Nice find, Cut.
     
  11. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Deity

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    Romney has no true convictions, he has proven this time and time again. He does whatever will help him win at a given moment. He is the vigilant true conservative for the time being because it benefits him, if polls in key states show that is hurting him he will run as far to the middle as he deems beneficial. He is the worse variety of politician (excluding the pure evil in the vein of dictators of course, although if Romney thought such a position aided him he probably wouldnt be beyond taking it)
     
  12. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

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    Don't forget cheesy grits y'all.
     
  13. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    Poor Romney, the democrats just aren't being fair.

    The republicans would never start completely insane rumors for political advantage :cry:
     
  14. cegman

    cegman Scott Walker Supporter

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    Yea but at least the Republican rumor starters aren't Senate Majority Leader. They are a little less central in running the county...

    Obama has no true convictions, he has proven this time and time again. He does whatever will help him win at a given moment. He is the vigilant gay marriage supporter for the time being because it benefits him, if polls in key states show that is hurting him he will run as far from the gays as he deems beneficial. He is the worse variety of politician (excluding the pure evil in the vein of dictators of course, although if Obama thought such a position aided him he probably wouldnt be beyond taking it)
     
  15. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    Its called an extension. Based on your comment above, it can only be assumed you have never paid taxes in the last ten years. Prove otherwise crook!
     
  16. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    He still would have needed to file an extension by April 15th that would have told his expected tax burden. Someone in Romney's situation would also likely be required to file estimate returns. So far as I know, none of those have been released by his campaign.
     
  17. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    It still demonstrates that he's not competent to get basic tasks done correctly on a schedule.
     
  18. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    Those with foreign tax shelter and trust fund baby income generally need to file an extension so as to have accurate Schedule K's when they do file.
     
  19. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    Don't care. Do it without straw-man or loaded-question shenanigans.

    If you were trying to prove my position to be bogus by calling it a categorical straw-man/loaded-question, you can't do that by presenting examples with a straw man or a loaded question in them--all that means is, you presented a bad example.

    Wrong. Pretty much everybody on CFC has answered "no" to that with their actions. If somebody doesn't believe in global warming, for example, most people on CFC have this reaction: "you are wrong and you must be corrected".

    Wrong also. That's how most politicians win elections. Take a look at what Obama is saying this very minute: "you, the Voter, should be caring about taxing the rich and protecting the environment and catering to gays, and here's why".

    Almost all politicians do in fact tell us what we should be caring about. And it works.


    It's drawing attention, isn't it? That's a possible reason right there. Doing something unusual and different is an attention-getter. Chick-Fil-A can certainly testify here: bad publicity turned into big profits.


    Then we shouldn't be asking.

    Innocent till proven guilty. The burden of proof is not on Romney to prove he's not a crook--the burden is on you, to prove that he is. Do you have any actual evidence that he's a crook? Then present it. Until you do, you must presume innocence.

    Not by you or me. In fact, I think that's illegal.
     
  20. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Deity

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    Oh the other side is an idiot too, I guess that makes it awesome and ok then
     

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