MLDR004 NOW and Again

meldor

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Joined
Feb 8, 2002
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Tualatin, Or
Non-Oscillating War goes Demi-God

The variant goes as follows:

The first Civ we meet, we declare war on them and stay at war until they are wiped from the face of the earth. We must declare war on them by the end of the turn in which we meet them. (This does allow for trades but no gpt or lux payments).

We then take the Civ we contacted second and declare war on them and stay at war until they are defeated. Each Civ will be destroyed in the order that we meet them. New Rule If more than one Civ buys contact with us in the interturn and we don't know which one bought contact first, then when it comes time to declare war on ones of those Civs, the player may chose which one to declare on.

Before it becomes their "turn" we may freely trade with any other Civ. Please avoid any RoP, gpt, and other deals with the next victim if it gets close to their turn. The one exception would be a deal for an alliance against the current victim.

Standard rules apply, no exploits. However, dastardly is allowed as long as you respect our reputation for the most part. It is OK to declare war dishonorably, but not take peace and then attack before 20 (unless they do the declaring).

I try not to be as hard about play time, sometimes things get in the way. I won't make hard and fast deadlines, but would ask you to either play or post a skip as soon as you are able. This keeps the game moving and keeps everyone interested and happy.

Also, each turn (except the first player) will be around ten turns +/- a few. If you don't have to complete them all then its OK to stop early and pass it on. Sometimes the game just has some natural break points beyond which you might commit the next player to a massive undertaking and you want to leave the choice up to them as they will shoulder the burden. Sometimes a war is just about over and you don't want to leave a the next player with a couple of boring "clean-up" turns or you have worked to get something done that you feel is important and you don't want it lost. Take a couple extra to do so. Try not to "hog" all the fun, but don't short change yourself either.

The parameters, standard size, continents, 70%, normal, temperate, 4 billion. Random opponents, random barbs, standard victory conditions, no culture link, no respawn. These are not set in stone, let me know if anyone wants changes.

The current roster stands as:
Meldor
Northern Pike
Belisar
Arizona_Steve
ChrTh
Coffee

ChrTh has indicated an inability play right out of the gate. We will save a spot. I expect that the gaming will slow way down during the holidays as usual so the seat will be warm.

These are the current players in MLDR003 and most have expressed interest in joining the next one. We are stepping back on here to assess the changes due to conquest. I would like to do this one and then for the next game go back to Diety or Sid. We can then up the number of opponents that we have to be at war with. I am trying to work up to AWD Diety or SID. They say it can't be done. We will see. If anyone listed here doesn't want to play or needs to drop prior to the start post your intention. We will only add another if the roster drops to 4.

We only have one choice expressed for our Civ so far.

Austria
A 'hidden' civ, industrious and militaristic, UU is the Husar, a 7/3/3 cav

Industrious giving us Masonry to start with faster workers, more shields in large cities and city walls. Not bad for a game in which we are going to have to do a lot by ourselves.

Militaristic, cheaper military buildings, more promotions/leaders start with warrior code which give archers (early offense). They have the Husar (7.3.3) as their UU which replaces the Cav (6.3.3). This would enable a well timed Late Age GA.

Belisar will generate the map and play it long enough to ensure its suitability. That earns the last spot in the roster, just as I got last game. The rest will be based purely on random draw (except maybe AS as he gets a little ancie at the start and can't wait to play :D).

We were pressed at times in the early going of the last game. Our UU arrived just in time to put us over the edge and this one (although not as good on attack) would be in the same time frame. Conquest does give us a few new advantages to use. The bombardment for archers and bow will be a big plus. Instead of building as many cats for early defense we should be able to use archers for defensive bombardment and to kill off strays (a 2fer1 combo with punch). The new tech tree will take some getting used to and I don't lnow if it will break in our favor or not. With the addition of new wonders, the AI seems to go wonder crazy for a while but it also means big cascade sequencies so we will most likely be at a push as we won't have much prebuilding to do. I think the only think we did a prebuild for in the last game was for Hoover's.

Thoughts, any other Civs for consideration?
 
Industrious giving us Masonry to start with faster workers
Don't forget they aren't as fast as before.
 
Another couple of things.

(1) When making deals, don't send any gold-per-turn to another civ. Otherwise they end up with twice as much gold as we send them. On the other hand, let's sell our techs and luxuries for gold-per-turn :D

(2) Don't build the forbidden palace until the game is patched. It actually INCREASES corruption.
 
Deep down inside, I'm hoping the first patch will be out before I get the game :D

I'm here and following :band:
 
The first city will need to start a prebuild for the Great Library, assuming we are going with the same strategy. Which I suppose we have to do because of the gpt bug. Our best trades might be luxs and lump sum gold for tech . That means we need masonry as our first or almost first tech so we can have the palace as a prebuild.

The game demands more gold from the player than it does from itself. So I agree we should stay away from gpt deals whenever possible.

Luxuries and resources seem to be a lot sparser in C3C. I think pillaging with armies should see more use this game. I'm interested in combining arms also. Perhaps 2 sword, 2 archer, 2 cat. A single horse should be included with this stack.

It might be a good policy to have one city producing improvements at all times. Say after the five city mark.

I've tested abandoning the FP in two SP games. There was not a noticable difference in corruption. The exception is that a corrupt free FP was missing. It maybe more about distance. Building the FP at a distance of 8 didn't hurt IIRC. So building the FP still gets one uncorrupt city.

A good FP site would break the tie for cities located the same distance from the palace. That may make the FP worth building.

@Teknoice. I was getting tired of PTW so I'm not disappointed buying C3C. Van, huh. My old home town. ;)
 
Huh, this was quick, the 3rd NOW game, same team and an unbroken enthusiasm, great. :D
Does anyone have a different suggestion for our civ?
If not, I will go with Meldor's settings and post a start-file in the next 48 hours. Agressiv-level should probably be standard (?)
 
Lets use Snoopy's C3C standard terrain. Its available from the CivFan home page.

EDIT: @meldor. I think my enthusiasm got ahead of better judgement. I'm feeling somewhat burned down. So I think I'll pass on playing this one. I'll complete LotR11 and the short, 150t, Rise of Rome conquest, take the hoildays off and check back in January. Please keep my name on the list for the next one though. I wouldn't want to miss an AW game. I know I'll enjoy the reading. Good luck, like you'll need it. ;)
 
No problem Coffee, if you change your mind let us know. That still leaves us with 4 active and 5 after Santa pays ChrTh a visit. Do we want to add someone else ro go with what we have?
 
We have a good team of experienced players but with ChrTh not beeing able to play we could add a fifth.
Only suggestion: Military deity wins are a 'must' for this difficult variant.
 
I wouldn't mind playing in a four-man rotation until :santa:, but I also wouldn't object to the addition of a new player if you're confident of the quality of his play, meldor.

Meldor, I've already mentioned this in the MLDR03 thread but I'll repeat it here for convenience: please put me as far back in the rotation as possible (though I realize that this may just mean third place, in the present circumstances), so that I'll have time to work in some solo play of Conquests.
 
No problem NP, I think we are all trying to absorb the changes. I actually think even on Diety that thew Great Library is doable without a leader.
 
Can't we just browbeat Coffee until he gives in and rejoins the team?!?

:suicide: :whipped:

:D
 
I just wanted to give a small update:
Austria is playable (coool! :D) and should be a really powerful NOW-civ, but a few details have to be considered if we want to use them.
All of us need enough HD space to make a copy of the conquest directory. After that, we replace two files in this 'Austrian' version and use it for this game only (one civ is replaced, all leaderheads, units... included), seem to work fine for me.
Actually I thought in the days of 160GB HDs, this should be no problem, but if anyone from the team can't do it, we will have to use one of the standard civs.
 
Is it possible for you to create a scenerio so that all the files go with it? I have no problem with the HD space so if we can't do it as a scenerio and no one objects to the process we will go with it. Post the details of the needed changes so that we can try it out ahead of time.
 
I think if you create the scenario, and then save it at 4000BC, you don't need any more files; at least, I never have (the .sav incorporates all the changes for the .bic) ... obviously, if you have custom graphic files those would have to be moved, but the Austrian graphic files are native to Conquests.
 
The problem is: Austria replaces one of the existing civs, (leaderheads....)
Thus everyone needs these two files (will post them) and replace the original one in the Conquest directory. One could use one version and replace these two files with the original one whenever playing other games but this would be very annoying, so my solution with the copy seems to be the most easy one for those with enough HD space.

Alternatively, I could create a scenario but then it would be hard to prevent almost complete spoiler knowledge which I don't know how to avoid.
 
@Belisar

Here's the trick: Change the rules first (make Austria one of the playable Civs instead of, say, the Koreans). Then generate the map, and then save the scenario without really looking at the map. Everything is still random on the map unless you put it there. When you start the scenario, you'll see a mini-map, but it won't have details such as resources, etc. Start the game as the Austrians, and then save it right at 4000 BC. Then make yourself last in the rotation. That way you'll have plenty of time to forget any details you may have seen. I did this with CTR7, and had no problems (in fact, I actually lingered over the Carthaginian starting location to make sure it was on a separate continent from ours, and I still missed an important detail in the game :rolleyes: )

Doing it the way you're talking about it will not actually give you the true Austrian setup, if I understand it correctly, just swapping some info. The Firaxatarians put the Austrians in the editor, so I would recommend doing it that way, rather than manually.
 
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