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mm15: Berserk Bismarck- AWM-1CC

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Mark1031, Apr 20, 2006.

  1. Mark1031

    Mark1031 Chieftain

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    Well we beat this on Prince with the Incans and I have to give a go at the next level up. We will probably loose but who knows. I am taking a different view of this game. I doubt this can be done on a Pangaea so we will try a more standard 1CC approach and civ. We will be Bismarck- Expansive & Industrious. The goal is to grab the early wonders and develop a standard 1CC city and then take it to the AI.

    Settings:

    Patch: 1.61
    Map: Archi with High water. I will also check the map to be sure we have iron and oil.
    Difficulty: Monarch
    1CC
    AW
    No tech trading
    No Barbs.

    Mark1031
    Maksim
    Grey Fox
    Gotag
    Woobi
     
  2. Maksim

    Maksim Chieftain

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    More warfare, no respite?

    Sign me up.

    Just as you are, I'm not sure whether we can win this but he who dares wins, and all that rubbish.

    Expansive is very good for us. Industrious isn't bad - we can use Oracle to pull off a beeline to something but I doubt we can get Civil Service this time - I don't usually get it on Monarch. Perhaps run towards Alphabet and build Great Library instead?
     
  3. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    What kind of victory you are looking at? Domination?
    Just curious at the moment.
     
  4. Maksim

    Maksim Chieftain

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    We are a 1CC, so Domination is impossible.

    Conquest it is.
     
  5. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    GreyFox reporting for yet another 1CC duty. :salute:
     
  6. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    Domination is posible by means of permanent alliance
     
  7. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    But its AW. Doubt you can have PA with someone you are at war with ... :lol:
     
  8. Mark1031

    Mark1031 Chieftain

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    It is somewhat hard to get a permanent alliance in always war:lol: .

    Welcome to the veterans of OCC AW Maksim and Grey Fox. This should be fun. I've tried this a bit and I am somewhat more optimistic of our chances. There are several keys. One is obviously the pyramids, this is a must for the specialist fueled research of a 1CC. Oracle is nice but so is Parthanon which is easier to snag although getting all 3 would be nice. Great library is a must and so is 1 or 2 early religions for org rel and the monastaries. The key to this is tech. We must have tech superiority as we cannot afford to burn units. Avoiding Scientific Method as long as possible to avoid loosing the GL and Monastary effects is important. One can get to infantry pretty early doing this. A second key is that we will never have WW and the more we can give the AIs the better.

    Still need 2 brave warriors.
     
  9. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Pyramids + Oracle + Parthenon + Great Library in Monarch? :eek: :lol:

    Unless somehow the RNGod gave us iron + oil + marble + stone ... :mischief:

    -

    I have been participating in all your mm-1CC-AW series, and learnt a lot from them. I wouldn't give this one a miss for anything :D

    -
     
  10. Mark1031

    Mark1031 Chieftain

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    I've done it with stone and no chopping (1.61). A bit lucky but I think with stone/industrious Pyramids + Parthenon + Great Library is quite doable, the oracle is the tough one. If you get lucky and are in org religion I have done it after the Pyramids. AI takes forever usually to do the Parthenon and GL is just a matter of getting up to Lit 1st which we will do.
     
  11. Gotag

    Gotag Chieftain

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    :salute:

    Think this is going to be quite interesting with a mostly water map. Having to dominate the sea AND the land is going to be tricky in an OCCAW. Still though should be fun!! Balancing short and long term needs is paramount and supression will be hard as hell.

    Gotag
     
  12. Woobi

    Woobi ...

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    I'll give this a go, should be fun...

    Will need to hope hard for iron, copper, oil, coal, etc...
     
  13. Mark1031

    Mark1031 Chieftain

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    4000BC: OK We have cows, crabs and stone with lots of hills/forest. And I checked the map maker and we will have iron and oil within reach (I would not even try without this). Start warrior. research -> Fishing. Hut pops a scout. That is the worst possible even a warrior would have been better.

    3760: Fishing-> Myst. I am heading straight for monotheism for some religion and the org religion building boost. Switch to work boat.

    3440: Myst->Poly

    3240: Crabs on line and I work 2 sea tiles for the commerce. Warrior->stonehinge. I have no intention of finishing this but would take a few $$ from the loss.

    3040: Poly in and we get Hinduism. Also Buddhism not founded yet so we should get Judiasim too I would think. Switch build to Parthenon (would like to get this but not top priority) Research->Masonry.

    2920: Budd FIDAL.

    2720: Masonry->Monotheism

    2440: Hit size 5 start worker

    2320: We are Jewish as well. Research to AH.

    1960: Sorry I usually play to 2000BC but hit enter. Worker is on cows ready to pasture.

    This is a critical point. We must get the Pyramids but I think we have time for this. It would be nice to get the oracle as well but we would have to go quick. I suggest after wheel we do priesthood and try to time the oracle with writing to grab CoL and a step to Civil Service. It would be a 3rd Monastary. Could also go for Alphabet to get to lit and TGL (this might be even better). We can switch easily between commerce and shields. Do not chop any forests as it does not help that much (1.61) and we want the health. I am somewhat inclined to not improve some tiles as one more forest in our cross and we pick up a health.

    Don’t worry about the Parthenon, It would be nice but the AI is usually slow to build it and it is not that important. I personally would not be tempted to save any GE we may get for wonders but just merge everyone except 1 scientist for the academy. Well good luck we will need it.


    First round 20-turns ea.
     

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  14. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Got it ... sort of. Kind of late at my side of the world now, will play tomorrow.

    So, we want the Pyramids, TGL, Oracle, and the Parthenon, in descending order of priority. Piece of Cake ... :cooool: :lol:

    Seriously though, with stones, Pyramids shouldn't be a problem. The other 3 requires marble for double speed which we don't have, so we are going have to prioritize. Usually, if we head straight for Literature, we would beat the AI to Great Library, with or without marbles. Oracle and Panthenon is the more tricky one, as some AI love to target it. They are somewhat less aggressive with wonders when it is AW, so we might beat them to one those.

    I think heading straight for Lit and TGL is the way to go. True, the CS slingshot is worth a lot, but heading straight for Lit thus having an early library, and getting the TGL for 2 free scientists until corporation is well worth lots of beakers as well. Plus we have no rivers nearby to make full us eof CS anyway, so I am more intended to go for TGL after Pyramids.

    --
     
  15. Mark1031

    Mark1031 Chieftain

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    I really agree with that. There is no way to do the CS slingshot as the time to research CoL is too great. However if we do get the Oracle and time it to writing we could get either CoL or alphabet. CoL would be the more expensive tech but we would then have to head straight for lit and we might miss TGL although I doubt it on Monarch. The 3rd religion gives us the 3rd Monastary for research boost which would be nice and after lit/drama we would be one step closer to CS.
     
  16. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    First off ... WHAT HAPPEN TO MY SPLASH SCREEN?? No more Spock's voice ... ... must be the autolog ... and worse, its not working ... :aargh:

    ---

    In the begining, .... ok, cut the crap, go straight to the report.

    1960BC: Why Parthenon? I thought we want the Pyramids. I switched us to Pyramids, and start on pasturing the cows. These animals must be harnessed!

    1840BC: Pasture completes. MM'd Berlin to work on the cows.

    1800BC: After cowing the pasture, send worker to go stoning the quarry :lol:

    1760BC: Worker reach quarry site ... :)eek: took him a whopping 40 years to travel!) ... hmmm, 6 turns to quarry, but wheel will be learnt within 2 turns.

    1680BC: Wheel in, and ... Where the F is my spalsh screen and Spock's voice???? :cry: Choose Priesthood (6 turns) which enables Writing and Oracle.

    1560BC: quarry completed, and meanwhile, someone built stonhedge.

    1520BC: Congratulatuions, gentlemen! The stonehedge investment gives us a whopping 3 gold!




    1440BC: Priesthood in, go for Writing (10 turns)... and ... What happens to my splashscreen!!!!!! :gripe:

    1360BC: Lo, and Behold, stone is now connected, and pyramids drops to 11 turns. Not good enough. Hmm ... Check Berlin, happiness limit has reached, MM'ed city to stagnant. Now pyramids in 7 turns. :D



    This is the final situation: Pyramids in 3 turns, Writing in 5. Good luck!



    The save ... who's up? :eek: oopps ... I thought I was up! Only until I finished the turns, completed writing this report, and look for the roster to see who's next then I realized it was maksim's turn instead of me :crazyeye: ... Maksim, I hope you don't mind. Consider this a swap in order :p

    -
     
  17. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Terribly sorry about the mix up in roster, maksim, I keep thinking I was after Mark. :p
     
  18. Maksim

    Maksim Chieftain

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    Got it.

    GreyFox, no problem - I've actually been unable to play until tonight, and then I find myself with three SG's to play! So I went for the Oscillating War - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165789 - survived ten turns of barbarian warfare, and am too exhausted to play anything properly.

    So I'll play this tomorrow.
     
  19. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Maksim, so do you want to revert to the original roster (i.e. Mark -> you -> me) for next round onwards or stick to this order (Mark -> me -> you) permannently?

    --
     
  20. Maksim

    Maksim Chieftain

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    Alright, let’s get technical.

    We have twenty turns to play. Our island is explored; we have one worker and need no more. Pyramids in three turns, Writing in five, and we have started on Parthenon.

    Nothing to do but wait three turns for Pyramids. We get them but Oracle is finished in the meantime. Shame – we only needed six turns for it. OK, scratch the Code of Laws idea – we are now pushing for Literature first and foremost.

    The race is on to get Parthenon. Arguably it will be even more useful for us than Oracle. As we already have Pyramids, we can switch to Representation when we like, so any great people will bring us science points, of which we currently earn a pitiful eleven. An extra three is like having a library at this time.

    So, don’t switch to Representation yet – instead, push full speed on Parthenon, coming online in a dozen turns or so. Research Alphabet – yes, thirty-two turns is a lot but that’s the gambit we play.

    In the year 750 BC, Colossus is built in a distant land, we get Parthenon (see picture one), and I revolt to representation, even though we currently have no specialists. Why? We are at maximum happiness, and an extra two happy people can’t hurt us right now – we can afford them with our health.

    We are set to build a library, and this is where I make my major weed – I do not think ahead. We have two religions but do not have meditation, so can’t build monasteries. Library will finish soon, but what can we build after that?

    So, I blithely go on researching Alphabet, and Berlin looks like this at the end of my turn when I realize my mistake (see picture two). Once that library finishes, we can move the worker off the mountain and make him a scientist to generate our first Great Person quicker. This should jump our research up to 21!

    Contrast this with a replay of the rest of my turn after I built Parthenon and revolted to representation, where I switched to study Meditation for a bit while building a Library, and paid attention to how much hammers were put in, thus saving a turn on the library (see picture three). There, we are easily set to build a warrior for two turns, and then continue with two monasteries, while proceeding with our research into Alphabet/Literature.

    So, guilty as charged.

    To whoever comes next – consider stopping by to pick up Meditation after all. It will cost you five turns or thereabouts once we have the library/scientist combo. The two monasteries should still save us enough time on Alphabet/Literature to make it worth it. Consider building a Barracks in the meantime (I don’t think we need temples just yet).

    If we get an artist, join him. If we get a scientist, build an academy. If we get a great engineer – I’m tempted to say “join him” as well. He’ll produce both hammers and research that way, and we are industrious, so should get Great Library with our rush to it.

    After this, we need to rush to Civil Service, although consider picking up some early techs like Pottery and IW (we were promised iron – perhaps in fat cross?). Actually, I’m uncertain whether it’s actually worth it to build any cottages, or whether we would be better served by farming. Don’t forget that while using Representation/Bureaucracy we aren’t getting either US or Free Speech, so the towns’ value isn’t that high for us.

    One wonder I’m very partial to is Hanging Gardens due to its health effect but this might be too far out of our way.

    And now I’m going to stop talking. :)
     

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