mm16: Battle of Bejing-AWM-1CC

[Mark1031]

We are about to loose mm15 which was an AWM-1CC as Bismarck. We came close but just ran out of time. So in this case I will change the settings a bit. We will play as Qin. Fin and Ind. The financial trait is nice for fast early research by working water tiles on an archi map.

Settings:


Also: I chose opponents so we are the only Industrious civ.:

Other civs:

Liz: Philo+Fin
Alex: Philo+Agg
Monty: Spi.+Agg
Hatty: Cre+Spi
Asoka: Spi+Org
Cathy: Cre+Fin

Also: Conquest is the only victory enabled. This is a fight to the death.

For the start we have gold on the river, very nice. Also some elephants in reach. It is a bit short on food for this type of game as we will only have some pigs and the flood plain. I checked the map and we will also have iron and oil which was a requirement for this game.



First dibs to the mm15 players but we need 2 more players in any case.

Roster:

Mark
Gotag
GreyFox
Uberfish
Munterpipe
open

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

AWM OCC is too rough for my tastes, but I'll gladly lurk, if you'll let me.

 

[Gotag]

I must admit, there is a great temptation to settle ON the floodplain or the gold. Being able to move boats across rather then around our island is a great tactical advantage. However food/commerce uber alles.

China is a good choice if we can get out early. Cho's rock hard as an anvil, now all we need is a

Gotag

 

[GreyFox]

GreyFox Reports for OCC Duty, Sir!

Hard choices. We would be quite limited in food if we settle on the floodplains. We would lost a lot of commerce by settling on gold hill. But MM15 tells us how importantly to be able to reach both side of our coasts fast. I am undecided.

See if any other players who join would have new perspective.

--

 

[Maksim]

A few questions - in my last turnset of mm15, Cyrus showed up with Modern Armor. At that stage of the game, panzers were not enough anymore, and Modern Armor, had we researched it, requires Aluminum in addition to Oil. So I would suggest making sure that we have it here as well (yeah, that's stacking the deck, but this here is OCC AW, and we don't have any other option to get resources).

One thing about this start that worries me is the availability of health. What health resources, besides pigs, will this island actually have? Pigs don't double their health bonus until supermarkets, and Qin isn't expansive, so the city size will be more limited than last time (where we had cows, wheat and two different seafoods for +7 health!)

Anyway, I'm afraid I'm not signing up for this one, as my free time over the summer will be spotty. Best of luck to you guys, however!

 

[Mark1031]

There are multiple health resources on the island which is one reason I was willing to go with it. It has oil/iron/rice/bananas but only the pig is workable and no sea resources. this is about as good as you can get and with the gold and knowing we are the only industrious civ should allow us to get the CS slingshot as well as the pyramids which would be a big boost. We will never have the capacity to research to MA so aluminium is irrelevant.

Still need 2-3 more players.

 

[uberfish]

I'll play if you guys will have me, be a nice change to have a warmonger game with a limited amount of units.

 

[Tatran]

Every time I read an OCC thread the same questions
are there about resources.The thread starter knows
about the early resources and thus the map.
Why don't you simply edit the map with the
resources you need ?

Not a sign up btw.

 

[Mark1031]

Every time I read an OCC thread the same questions
are there about resources.The thread starter knows
about the early resources and thus the map.
Why don't you simply edit the map with the
resources you need ?

I suppose we could do that but the game probably balances resources so I would rather just roll a few to let the map maker give the start. It is a particularly big issue for AW as we cannot trade for resources and we really need the military resources.


I need 1 more player to start.

 

[Munterpipe]

I'm in. Let's go

 

[Mark1031]

4000 BC: Found in place. Well there is not as much food as I had hoped. but it is too nice a spot to pass up. We will have iron and oil as required but the starting gold on a river is too nice to pass up.

started a worker and research to AH.

3520: worker->rax research->mysti

3440: Bud founded

3240: Myst->poly

3000: Hindu founded. too bad.

2840: Poly->Masonry

2680: Masonry-fishing->mono

2240: We get Judiasm and revolt and revolt again to org rel. Research->Priesthood

2000: Research is set to writing. As you can see I am working all the sea tiles. We need research as I want to try for the CS slingshot. Hopefully you can time it right and still get the pyramids.



20 turns/player

Mark
Gotag-UP
GreyFox-On Deck
Uberfish
Munterpipe

 

[Gotag]

Guess we're building some wonders.

Gotag

 

[Gotag]

I played till 800BC as my first twenty turns was nothing but clicking.

We got both the Oracle and the Pyramids and are currently on the Parthanon. I revolted to Caste system and Bureaucracy once the Oracle was built and further to Representation with the pyramids.

I researched wheel and hunting for the ivory and to hook up our pigs (both done) so we were stalled at our health and happy limit but now can get to size 10 (with respect to happy) but need more health. We have Bronze Working and are currently researching Metal Casting both for the forge and the Colossus.

We are currently getting 7 GPP per turn with 21 needed for our first GP. We have one Scientist. We can get either a GS, GP or GE all of which are useful. No GA possible.

I see problems with respect to health. We don't want to grow too large we cannot support specialists.

Hangiing Gardens is a nice wonder for us as is of course aquaducts.

Good luck!!

Gotag

 

[GreyFox]

Gotag, you made it sound so casual that as if building Oracles and Pyramids is like building temple and barracks ...

That's a very fantastics turnset!

Got it.

-

 

[GreyFox]

The Son of Heaven
The Son of Heaven ... that's what they called me, the Chinese Emperor. Well, I don't know if I am the Son of Heaven, but I sure know that I am engineering inclined. Why, a Great Engineer was borned under my rule.



I had him appointed as the Imperial Miniter for Engineering. With his help, we built this great structure, which will no doubt inspire more Great Persons in the lLand of the Dragon.



Meanwhile, the Imperial Grand Tutor informed me that we have learnt Metal Casting.



Good, I sent the Grand Tutor off to oversee the Imperial Library that we were constructing, and see to it that the Top Scholar learn how to write using alphabets.

I was hoping to complete aThe Colossus, but alas old age has finally caught up with me. Son of Heaven or not, I am too weak to rule the Empire. Its time for the crown prince to ascend the throne. he may choose to continue my pursue for the Colossus, or he may not. He may choose to have the Grand Tutor to develop the Chinese Literature, and build us the Great Library, or he may not. Its his empire to rule now. He is the Son of Heaven now.



--

 

[Mark1031]

Very nice. I think we have to try and get a scientist ASAP for the academy and then of course as many more scientists as we can. Make sure we don't pass the health limit as we want to run as many specialists as possible.

Uberfish-UP
Munterpipe-On deck

 

[uberfish]

Got it, nice turns. I think I will leave colossus in, GM +1 food is pretty useful for us I think because we aren't very food rich, will also build Great library because that is excellent at fixing our great scientist probabilities.

will aim at Optics after that.

 

[Mark1031]

Optics is one possibility but will take quite a while. IMO we should head for Edu and build Oxford which will make everything else much faster. If we don;t get circumnavigate that is fine and we actually have no sea resources to protect so I don;t value optics that highly. Also, don;t forget about monastaries. I think this all comes down to research. I would stay in Org religion until oxford and then go to Pacifism.

 

[uberfish]

This almost played itself.

350 BC (1): Alphabet -> Literature

250 BC (5): Great Prophet born. Since this is AW a shrine wouldn't do us much good. We aren't in a hurry to get theocracy either, so I merge him.

225 BC (6): Literature -> Mathematics. We definitely need an aqueduct and Hanging gardens are always a very nice wonder as it's 1 health you'll miss out on forever otherwise + GE points.

200 BC (7): Colossus -> Great Library. With so many different GP generating wonders, we definitely need this to speed our academy.

100 BC (11): Maths -> Iron Working. Health is our major cap and irrigating that rice will give 2 health.

1 AD (15): Great Library -> Granary. Iron Working -> Meditation. (Monasteries and Philosophy prereq.) We have iron on one of the mined hills near Beijing, nice.

50 AD (17): Granary -> Aqueduct. Meditation -> Sailing.

100 AD (19): Aqueduct -> Hanging Gardens. Sailing -> Paper (? tentative)

Hmm, with so many wonders we don't really need the Music artist to get the next cultural expansion. This is a really hard tech choice because Education, Philosophy, and Astronomy all seem very reasonable goals... I will put one turn's worth of research into Paper for now per Mark's suggestion and we can discuss what order we should go about things in.

125 AD (20): Great Engineer born and merged.


The main thing to decide is what we want to go for now.

Paper -> education and early Oxford is obviously very tempting, the question is whether beelining there is superior to:

Optics -> astronomy would probably give us circumnavigation, I would normally consider this valuable on this sort of map? We would also be able to start attacking early with Maces and get a head start on conquering with this route.

Philo gives us another religion (maybe) and Pacifism. Organised religion is not really that needed for us now with +8 hammers from specialists already, and bonuses from forge and industrious that are additive not multiplicative. Since we don't have an academy yet I think going this way to try and get as many GPs as possible in the time window before we obsolete our wonders with quick Pacifism is also very attractive.


I really am not sure which is better, let's discuss!

 

[GreyFox]

Nice! So we get the Hanging Gardens and the Colossus? Man, we are unstoppable

---

I think circumnavigation is a luxury we can afford to do without. One good thing about navigation push is that we get to force the AIs into warring mode. But I think with Civ4, this does not slow them down much (if at all). Most AIs will simply ignore you and continue their development.

Based on mm15 experience, IMHO, its crucial to get our research up to speed (which is why we are finincial) so that when we do meet the Civs, we are up against them in military techs. Thus, we have to get all the techs that will help us in research, and then later focus on military.

By the way, since we are finiancial and have the colossus, we should at least build ourselves the lighthouse (oh, I fail to mention, but the TGLighthouse is BIADL in my turnset) so that we will work on those sweet +4 commerce coastal tiles.