MM3: One City Smackdown. AWE-OCC

[Mark1031]

Difficulty = Emperor
Civilization = Iroquois
Map = Pangea
Barbs = off
World Size = Standard 80%

Variant AW, Soft OCC. We can capture cities and abandon before turn ends (for Armies).

I also favor barbs this time. I think we will need the cash. My choice for civs in order are Iroquois, Persia, Greece, Japan, Ottomans. I think the last 2 UUs are delayed too long to be effective but they are very strong. I suspect we will lose this one on standard map but MM2 was so easy I think it is worth uping size and level.

Mark
Aggie
Bed Head 7
Akots
Greebley

 

[Aggie]

I want to join!

I'd go for small/emperor - not standard. That said, I don't mind standard too much.

I like choose Iroquois or Greece. Though elite hoplites are too strong in the ancient age. But Greece would allow Colossus if we ever get enough rest for that that is.

 

[Mark1031]

You don't like Persia? I'm almost thinking they are my first choice as I think we will want to use more pults this time to keep losses down so a slow moving SoD may be better, and the immortal is somewhat effective till Nationalism.

 

[Aggie]

Persia is great, but I don't like slow units that much. But no objection against them!

 

[Coffee]

Congrats on winning the Monarch game and good luck on Emperor.

 

[LKendter]

Congrats on winning the Monarch game and good luck on Emperor.

lurker's comment: I second Coffee's thoughts. I will be watching the Empreror game also.

 

[bed_head7]

I'm in again. I would prefer speed in our UU if possible, but a slow SoD is fine with me if we want to go with Persia.

 

[akots]

I might be very tempted but please, lets consider settings and civ with caution.

IMO, cash would not be much of the problem but shields very well might. However it is a complete unknown. Hoplites are good though as well as Mounted warriors or Legions. However, Commerical trait is rather useless and Agricultural somewhat either. Militaristic might be useful though.

Barbs may hurt us more than benefit. First, AIs will get free techs from huts. Second, our colonies will not be safe and would need some guarding all the time.

Another thing I don't like is soft OCC variant so that we will be able to build an army. It might be that we need it but on the other hand, it might be better to try without it and use some more mild settings and AI civs which are less powerful. For example, Standard with 80% water is OK but the AIs will have few cities with low corruption in this settings. It might be also that small with 60% water is more reasonable since land area will be the same but AIs will have more cities with higher corruption. On the other hand, if aggressive setting are on maximum, this would mean that in the latter case AIs will go to war with each other substantially later.

Regarding this, I'm thinking of Persia as well but we would not have a fair chance at Philo race on a Standard map. Hence seems that Rome is a great choice but we don't have Pottery and BW for colossus. Byzantines offer a great advantage as well since they would get BW and chance at Philo as well But they would be no powerful enough UU and Dromons seem to be rather far away though extra commerce in the city center should help somewhat.

It is also a good idea to look for a really good start with some kind of choke point, river, and bonus grassland instead of plains. May be a gold hill on which to build the city as well as a food bonus.

 

[Greebley]

I will play.

I much prefer the Standard size map even if we make the game easier in some other way. Small maps are just much easier for AW. Its one of the reason we could whomp across the world so quickly in the last game. The 80% land also meant the civs stayed small. 70% land would be very challenging and may take several attempts to get a win.

I don't mind Barbs. They are extra cash. Don't mind no barb either.

Any of the civs listed are ok for me. I will vote for Persia, but it is not a strong Preference.

 

[Mark1031]

@Akots. I really want the army option for this one. I realize it is unbalancing but we will have enough restrictions on us and it is not that easy to capture 3 cities and only 1 army is not too powerful IMO. Let's do soft OCC with 70% land. I will be surprised if we win. As far as start I'll be happy to go through many starts to try and get some that people like. I think our last one was quite strong but a workable gold or lux would be good also. I want costal river that can make 20 shields @ size 12 with some lux/gold workable and food bonus of course.

As for barbs. I am considering this. The early techs for the AI are the biggest concern but after that don't you think they will generate at least 5-10 gpt? That's as much as Colossus and we will want to protect our colonies anyway.

As for civ it looks like Iroquois get 3 votes. They have the advantage of starting with alphabet so Philo run should be doable and alpha is good trading material, Ag + food bonus should give fast growth on river. I guess we would just go then with a swarm of mounties without cat support. The retreat should help preserve units when taking cities.

Open for discussion: Barbs. Off or roaming

Pro: 5-10gpt.
con: PITA. early tech bonus for AI.

 

[Greebley]

I think that is my favorite too. Soft OCC with 70% land.

 

[akots]

Iro may be good but what about the Colossus? I'm still thinking of strict OCC. I just don't like the armies and we should not use this feature which is basically a bug in the game and nothing else. We can always decrease the difficulty later on after losing on this one but it should not happen since it will be probably won on 80% water coverage with Iro.

 

[Aggie]

Assembling a great team is more important to me than the exact settings. That said, I don't see a difference between an army and an elite hoplite. Both can be considered a 'cheat' in akots' reasoning.

 

[akots]

Assembling a great team is more important to me than the exact settings. That said, I don't see a difference between an army and an elite hoplite. Both can be considered a 'cheat' in akots' reasoning.

I just noticed I'm placed as maybe in the roster. No, I'm too weak to resist and temptation is too great.

Besides, a possibility of capturing 3 cities on the very same turn in this game while having MGL on hand and ready at the very same turn seems rather remote to me. We better use this MGL to hurry some improvement like market or library. Well, anything can happen later in the game but by then a single army will not matter too much imho. If we can agree to not deliberately building all the game strategy on this, that would be sufficient.

What I'm thinking is "eternal glory". Even if we don't build the army, there is still a possibility that lurkers would say something like: "No, this is not a good game, they have armies allowed and bended the OCC rules to their benefit." But even if we lose, they would say: "Great and honorable death it was, they have not even tried to build an army and did not bend the rules. Alas, this might be not possible with the settings they used." But by no means please consider this rant seriously. I'm fine either way. Good start is more important. With argi trait we can have granary and two workers as soon as possible, so mining bonus grassland can be accomplished within reasonable time.

 

[Aggie]

I'm not too worried about how others look at this game. They could also say that it shouldn't be allowed to make contact first in an Always War game. To me that's the in the same league as allowing cities in a turn. But that's just me. To me it's more important that we stick to the variant rules and don't deviate when things are going wrong.

Both AG10 and AG13 could have been won without armies. They appear to be more helpful in an AW, but I doubt that we ever get the opportunity when we really need one. If we get there we are in a great position anyway. Capturing 3 cities in an turn in AW shows that you are doing fine.

 

[microbe]

a possibility of capturing 3 cities on the very same turn in this game while having MGL on hand and ready at the very same turn seems rather remote to me.

Well, check out AG9 and AG13. We had 2 armies in the end.

 

[Mark1031]

Sorry, I play tested a few spots and didn't like them and I will be out of town so this will start next monday. I am reducing land to 20%. I think that a win even with these conditions will be crazy hard.

 

[Mark1031]

4000BC: Road ivory, step to coast.

3950: Found Sala Start WC. Road ivory

Build warrior, warrior, currgah explore with currgah, keep warriors at home.

3100: WC in start Masonry for Math and SoZ.

3000: Meet Arabia, they are up Mas, BW and CB. No Deals. Declare.

Granary is gambit and can be changed to barracks at no loss. I wanted to get the growth early and pull off 5 extra workers at size 6 and merge them back in to size 12 with fast improvement of all tiles. Also Currgah is for early contact. I did a few test games and research time on Emp isolated is too slow relative to AIs. I think we need to just get all the contacts and get on with it. The SoZ is a must in this game. Also GL a must with Colossus very nice and doable. I would advocate Math next then build SoZ. Then trade or research BW and build Colossus and then go writing/philo or Lit. If we wait to build MWs we can get a Monarchy GA. I know this is rather unorthadox but that is my view, feel free to trash it. We will not be doing much but defense for a while.


Mark
Aggie UP Take 20 then 10t/player
Bed Head 7 ON DECK
Akots
Greebley

 

[el_filet]

lurker's comment: i don't think you can afford to build SoZ before colossus if you want the giant statue. i'd build colossus first , it's more likely to get both if you take this way, maybe nobody else has ivory.

 

[Aggie]

This is a custom map? That cow at least shouldn't be there...