MNAI Essentials

[[to_xp]Gekko]

thanks to Tasunke for the name suggestion

Just some small tweaks I consider essential for my enjoyment of the game... I'm confident most FFH veterans will agree with these:

1) Doviello Battlemasters cost the same as regular champions
2) Shadows ( and their UUs ) require Esus state religion
3) Create Battering Ram requires Doviello civilization instead of Khazad
4) Sever Soul is available to all Sidar recon units after Knowledge of the Ether
5) Lumbermills can be built on Ancient Forests
6) Garrim Gyr is Arcane instead of Defender
7) Elohim civtrait is now Spiritual instead of Tolerant
8) Decius is now Tolerant instead of Raiders, and can lead Elohim
9) Kuriotates and Elohim start with Religion civic, Sidar with Nationhood ( instead of Pacifism )
10) Doviello Beastmen can upgrade directly to Battlemasters with Iron Working
11) Goblin Forts no longer start with an archer guardian
12) Keelyn is Arcane instead of Summoner
13) Kandros Fir is Organized instead of Aggressive
14) Arturus Thorne is Aggressive instead of Organized
15) Alexis is Financial instead of Philosophical
16) Flauros is Philosophical instead of Financial
17) Javelin Throwers cost the same as regular Archers
18) Mud Golems cost the same as regular Workers
19) Sorcery is now a higher sage bulb priority than the four schools of magic
20) Strength of Will is now a higher sage bulb priority than Pass through the Ether
21) Cassiel starts as Creative instead of Industrious
22) Sandalphon is now Philosophical instead of Defender

Also includes the BalancedPlus mapscript, and re-enables power ratio on the scoreboard when not using Advanced Tactics.

In the archive you'll find a Backup archive you can use to easily restore unedited MNAI 2.42

Enjoy!


Credits: Vehem, Lone Wolf, MagisterCultuum, Sareln, Sephi

 

[Kiech]

Sounds awesome! Is there any way this can got folded into Thotal's mod as an option like advanced tactics?

 

[doktarr]

Lumbermills on Ancient Forests and no archers in goblin forts are very good, I think.

2) Shadows ( and their UUs ) require Esus state religion

So, are they like high priests, then? They leave if you change religion? That sounds good.

7) Elohim civtrait is now Spiritual instead of Tolerant
8) Decius is now Tolerant instead of Raiders, and can lead Elohim

Not sure I like these two. The tolerant trait, to me, is the defining characteristic of the way the Elohim play.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

not sure if shadows abandon, but I think they do since the code seems identical. lemme check...

re: Elohim: I just think it's bad design to give a trait that encourages warmongering to a civ with an hefty war weariness penalty. Tolerant was added late into development to give them something unique, but it never really fitted them. Spiritual fits perfectly and makes monks more interesting. I let Decius lead Elohim so you can still play Tolerant Elohim if you want. Organized is pretty sweet for that kind of gameplay. he could actually be better than the other two, I might have to change civtrait to Defensive and make the others Spiritual, since Tolerant is heaps and bounds better than Defensive for sure



I'm also updating the OP to add one more tweak: Doviello Beastmen can upgrade directly to Battlemasters with Iron Working.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

thanks doktarr, I had missed a tag. Shadows now properly abandon after religious switch

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

updated with some trait changes:

Keelyn is Arcane instead of Summoner
Kandros Fir is Organized instead of Aggressive
Arturus Thorne is Aggressive instead of Organized
Alexis is Financial instead of Philosophical
Flauros is Philosophical instead of Financial

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

updated with a couple unit cost changes:

Javelin Throwers cost the same as Archers
Mud Golems cost the same as Workers



btw, how do you change bulb orders? Scientists need a couple tweaks

 

[doktarr]

not sure if shadows abandon, but I think they do since the code seems identical. lemme check...

re: Elohim: I just think it's bad design to give a trait that encourages warmongering to a civ with an hefty war weariness penalty. Tolerant was added late into development to give them something unique, but it never really fitted them.

Alternatively, you could argue that giving tolerant to a civ with a hefty war weariness penalty is a clever way to balance the trait.

Spiritual fits perfectly and makes monks more interesting.

I do agree with that, FWIW, though.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

dunno, it always felt like more of an afterthought: Kael had made a modcomp for vanilla that gave everyone Tolerant as a gameoption, and when it was time to wrap up FFH and Elohim were still bland he just quickly slapped Tolerant on them

updated once more:

Sorcery is now a higher sage bulb priority than the four schools of magic
Strength of Will is now a higher sage bulb priority than Pass through the Ether

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

aaaand a couple more trait changes:

Cassiel starts as Creative instead of Industrious
Sandalphon is now Philosophical instead of Defender

 

[doktarr]

It seems like maybe you could split all the trait changes into a seperate modmodmodfrom the rest of it. I'm not saying any individual one is wrong, just that you can hardly call the whole set "essential". I'd be happy to see just 1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10,19,20. I'm not sure Mud Golems should get such a big price cut, and Javelin Throwers should be at least a bit more expensive since you don't need to build an archery range.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

yeah, the name was fitting at first but as I add more stuff it'll be less so. I think I'll cook up a lite version soon.

Javelins don't really need to be more expensive, they are already weaker than archers where it counts - defense.

Mud Golems are worse than regular workers because they take ages to build, having them at the same price at least puts them on par with the others, plus I wanted to compensate the worldspell nerf.


Upcoming changes:

23)Axemen/Swordsmen no longer able to get Mithril Weapons
24)Animal Mastery more expensive, require Alteration and Military Strategy instead of Iron Working
25)First to research Precision tech gets a free Great Commander
26)Harpy event changed to give a Great Bard for 50 gold, no unhappiness penalty
27)Removed the version of the Minister Koun event that does not grant a permanent alliance
28)Crazed Swordsman event gives 10XP as advertised
29)Loyalty prevents Domination
30)Blur loses defensive strike immunity, Shadowwalk gains defensive strike immunity
31)National Epic no longer gives commander GPP
32)Code of Junil gives commander GPP instead of engineer GPP
33)Overcouncil/Undercouncil available at Ways of the Wise/Ways of the Wicked instead of Honour/Deception
34)Lightbringers don't get bad results from tribal villages
35)Aifon Isle gives water mana, Odio's Prison gives body mana
36)Planar Gates are cheaper with Summoner trait
37)Pyre Zombies/Azer explosions damage capped at 95%
38)Mercantilism gives +1 gold from specialists, +1 happy from money changer
39)Plantations give the same gold as a village when pillaged
40)Calendar centers the map
41)Hawks available at Animal Handling
42)Tower of Mastery and the final level of the Altar of the Luonnatar are rituals instead of wonders
43)Creative gives cheap Theatres instead of Monuments
44)Expansive gives cheap Smokehouses instead of Harbours
45)Blinding Light fixed to no longer last twice as much with simultaneous turns
46)Trust spell cures Crazed and Enraged
47)The Draw requires Shamain, and Winterborn gives +25% vs Frostling racial

 

[Calavente]

if you didn't already know... /me loves you... well, on an hypothetical level only... but still.

I'm not sure about the traits changes... but that's only because I don't play enough. I'm sure you are right (or at least reasonnably right). for those.
and AT LEAST, Flauros' change was needed.
for Elohim, not having tolerant is somehow a nerf... so maybe you could give them a + somewhere... (palace with reduced distance maintenance ? or something else....

for the future one... you have to imagine I'll repeat the previous statement
(save mayber for national epic... GC ggp were fine there IMO.. but I might have a noob approach to this)
(and nice catch for trust spell... at least spirit III will be usefull for something )

all those things are really nice.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

thanks

lemme analyze the trait changes:

Flauros was easymodo so he needed a change. he had the best trait in the game + an excellent trait for the Calabim while Alexis had 2 good traits that are not so attractive for Calabim. switching those 2 equalizes them and also fits their personality better imo.

Kandros had 2 awesome traits while Arturus had 2 weak ones, so switching those makes them equally appealing and fits their personality well.

Keelyn's exponential puppetry was broken, the real fix would be disabling summoner for puppets but I'm not sure Tholal will do that and while I learn how to do that myself Arcane seems nice.

Garrym is a duh change since defensive is weak on its own and almost useless for Luchuirp, plus he was Arcane in the first place.

PHI/IND is an awesome combo and I like to have it ingame, but IND is almost useless early on so it's bad as a first adaptive trait. CRE is great at first and the Grigori could use a little boost. Sandalphon had the worst 2 traits in the game, and philosophical fits the Sidar very well.

I also considered making Os-Gabella Spiritual and Hyborem Aggressive, but many people seem to enjoy Industrious on her for the Catacomb so I left her as is. I could actually just change Hybo now that I think about it...

for Elohim, Spiritual is a pretty good trait, fits them well, makes monks attractive and is good for peaceful building. I realize it's perhaps a bold change but since you can still play Tolerant Elohim I think it's best this way

Trust tweak is from Eitb, except there it gives +50% GPP in a city a la inspiration/hope instead of removing Crazed. I think that would fit a Creation spell perfectly though and Crazed is so damn annoying... mainly I wanted to make it useful in multiplayer.

the national epic change is from Terkhen's mod, I only realized how good it was after in a recent game my engineer focused GP farm spawned 3 great commanders in a row at outrageous odds. being forced to pollute the GPP pool in your GP farm is bad design imo. I provided an alternate source of great commander points from the Code of Junil instead, much more fitting than engineer GPP

 

[Kiech]

Any thoughts on nerfing Aristocracy? Like removing the maintenance cost bonus?

Not sure how I feel about removing the great commander from National Epic, as it keeps non-order/organized civs from getting one. If it messes up your GP farm, don't put a National Epic there. No argument to changing the Code of Junil.

Seems like you nerfed the recon line a lot?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

aristocracy is fine, it's agrarianism and financial that are OP. I don't want to make a complete overhaul of civics and traits though, otherwise it becomes Eitb lite. for the time being I'm just going to buff Mercantilism since it's the only one that is absolutely, positively useless.

not putting the national epic in your GP farm is since it's specifically intended for that purpose

how did I nerf the recon line? haws are uber and having them at hunting is too early. how insanely useful they are might not be immediately noticed against the AI, but as soon as you start playing against humans it does a world of difference

animal mastery will cost the same amount of beakers to research, but they will be spent differently. I just think it's absurd for the t4 recon unit to require access to the t3 melee unit, otherwise you just ignore recon altogether and focus on melee in the first place. Alteration prereq is from wildmana, military strategy from Eitb. I'm not too keen on military strategy but there's no other good options and I don't want to have to boost AM beaker cost through the roof otherwise it would be best if left unedited.

 

[doktarr]

yeah, the name was fitting at first but as I add more stuff it'll be less so. I think I'll cook up a lite version soon.

Sounds good.

Javelins don't really need to be more expensive, they are already weaker than archers where it counts - defense.

Well, that's true if you try to use them like Archers. They are a sort of cross between Archers and Axemen. The real penalty is that the civ that has them doesn't have access to archers, but I'm not sure that making Javelins much cheaper to produce than Archers or Axemen is the right solution to that problem.

Mud Golems are worse than regular workers because they take ages to build, having them at the same price at least puts them on par with the others, plus I wanted to compensate the worldspell nerf.

Why not just undo the nerf, then?

Didn't one of the other mods reduce the price of Mud Golems and discover that they had overcompensated?

Axemen/Swordsmen no longer able to get Mithril Weapons

Animal Mastery more expensive, require Alteration and Military Strategy instead of Iron Working

Why Military Strategy?

First to research Precision tech gets a free Great Commander
Harpy event changed to give a Great Bard for 50 gold, no unhappiness penalty
Removed the version of the Minister Koun event that does not grant a permanent alliance
Crazed Swordsman event gives 10XP as advertised

Loyalty prevents Domination

I'm not sure I see the point. Domination is an expensive spell with a very big built-in penalty (losing the promotion). It's even more weaksauce if it can be blocked by a level 1 spell. Of course, you could just cast dispel magic first if you have a mage around, but you may as well just label the spell "for human players only" at that point...

Blur loses defensive strike immunity, Shadowwalk gains defensive strike immunity
National Epic no longer gives commander GPP
Code of Junil gives commander GPP instead of engineer GPP
Overcouncil/Undercouncil available at Ways of the Wise/Ways of the Wicked instead of Honour/Deception
Lightbringers don't get bad results from tribal villages
Aifon Isle gives water mana, Odio's Prison gives body mana

Planar Gates are cheaper with Summoner trait

Maybe good but I worry this might be overcompensating.

Pyre Zombies/Azer explosions damage capped at 95%

Mercantilism gives +1 gold from specialists, +1 happy from money changer

Again, seems good but I'm worried it's overcompensating.

Plantations give the same gold as a village when pillaged
Calendar centers the map
Hawks available at Animal Handling
Tower of Mastery and the final level of the Altar of the Luonnatar are rituals instead of wonders
Creative gives cheap Theatres instead of Monuments
Expansive gives cheap Smokehouses instead of Harbours
Blinding Light fixed to no longer last twice as much with simultaneous turns

Trust spell cures Crazed and Enraged

Just on the square, or everywhere in your empire? Or does this mean that you can cast it again and again, but the later castings are just for curing Crazed/Engraged?

The Draw requires Shamain, and Winterborn gives +25% vs Frostling racial

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

re: javelins. they are a cross between archers and axemen, correct... which is a drawback since you already have axemen to attack so it'd be better to have archers to defend like everyone else. making them cost as much as archers/axemen/hunters/horsemen is fair imo. not requiring an archery range is fitting for a Doviello unit and a slight boost to Illians. bonus fact, Illian AI loves to mass them due to the no archery range requirement, so the 90h cost hurts them.

re: Mud Golems. undoing the nerf is more complicated and I don't think we've reached a clear consensus about so for now let's just keep it as is. current Eitb has them at 50h which coupled with the industrious +25% on workers is of course too much, however eitb also gave other boosts to Luchuirp in the form of cheaper wood golems, cheaper+better Barnaxus, 2 move Gargoyles etc.

all in all, 75h is fair... they sure shouldn't be WORSE than regular workers


re: animal mastery requiring military strategy, I'm all ears if you have better suggestions, MS is from eitb ( already explained this in a previous reply )


re: Domination, you do have a good point but I'm more worried about loyalty being almost completely useless and since it's supposed to prevent the enemy from capturing your units I've always assumed this is the way it should be. it's a similar issue as with Blur, it's situationally very useful.



re: planar gates, you mean overcompensating for the pyre zombie nerf? planar gates are way too expensive for what they do and having a unique building that's not worth building most of the time is lame. it's not like the effect is so overwhelmingly powerful either way, at least now Sheaim will play more as intended i.e. raising AC and using gates instead of MOAR PYRE ZOMBIES !!!

Terkhen's linear chance to spawn seems great, although I'm not sure how it works in practice... and it probably requires DLL work which is way out of my league.



re: mercantilism, nah it's still not very good. eitb gives them +1gold from specialists, +1 happy from markets and 2 free specialists basically I want it to mimic Scholarship, with merchant/gold focus instead.



re: Trust, just on the square, similar to heal and cure disease for example. very handy to counter armageddon!

 

[Terkhen]

Terkhen's linear chance to spawn seems great, although I'm not sure how it works in practice... and it probably requires DLL work which is way out of my league.

It is just a small python change. The following page describes the required changes to CvEventManager.py (- means remove line, + means add line):

https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extra...led_Planar_Gate_Probabilities.diff?at=default

This is one of Extramodmod's changes that could use more testing, though. I just scaled the values in a way that makes the results roughly similar to what you would get before, but IIRC it would made spawns more frequent with low AC values.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

btw, I've edited the science flavour values for sorcery and strength of will based on your extramod, to change bulb orders for those, but it doesn't work. what am I missing?