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[MOD] Civ3 Evolution - Atlantean Chronicles

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Madeira, Feb 14, 2009.

  1. stico

    stico Prince

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    No, that's not my primary concern :)
    I said that because I though it would be good reason to ask for additional random maps.

    I was importing Madeira's mod to for instance random maps from my mod but when I tried to play there was an error that there is no possible to create starting location and didn't want to go through all mod and search for problem, even If I caused that :)
     
  2. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    That might help, im very low on free time to work on this as it is.

    My PC is up and running, spent most of my savings on a new PSU and everything else's ok.
    No more free time until saturday though, even for a small bug like the one Tom reported, unless I get sick or something lol
     
  3. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    we posted at the same time :)

    well im afraid its not that easy, I dont even have the time right now to think what would be necessary to change to make it work with random maps, im at work anyway and im not supposed to be writing here :rolleyes:

    might be easier to create a random map in the editor, but it would be messed up since I use custom terrains, not just resources, and even if you got a smaller map to work, you would need to make settlers buildable, that would mess up the mod's balance, and you wouldnt be able to build the Noble Houses unless you placed their required resources on the map, so no peasants, make them buildable like the settlers would be a good option.

    Its possible but it would take an experienced mod maker to make those changes, and I would rather spend my time on improving the mod, im sure you understand.
     
  4. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    Yup. Random maps don't use lm terrain.
     
  5. stico

    stico Prince

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    Sorry to hear that. In this situation there is no point to focus on randoms, I thought it would be simple to do but in fact I wasn't aware how it would messed up your mod.

    I'll try to play big map when I find some time.

    Thanks
     
  6. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Yes this mod is supposed to take time to play ;)
    I always like my civ games long, to allow all units to be used without worrying about some becoming obsolete after a few turns. If you play as the Celts, you get to play with some stone age units before you reach the bronze age and get something better. If you play as the Hellenes, you already have bronze age units, but so do some of your neighboors, and you'll need to hurry to reasearch Smelting and get some strong offensive units, or Metal Working and get some armored defensive units, to get the upper hand.

    Also, most bugs you may find should be with the pediaicons file, like the one Tom reported, and should be able to fix it without having to start a new game.

    This mod will be in development for a long time, and I will not wait to make sure the first culture groups are bug free before I move on to the others. I'll be playtesting while I get more and more civs playable, and any help I have means higher chances to catch some bugs and do some playbalancing based on other people's opinions.

    So no pressure ;)
     
  7. stico

    stico Prince

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    I was able to play for few hours today as the Hellas. I was managed to destroy some civs around me and conquer all cities of Atlantis civilisation. Mod seems to have incredible atmosphere, and it's very easy to fell into it for long long time.

    Few things still not right there... or maybe that was a purpose.
    It looks that in all first two eras there is no proper defensive units?! Atlantis AI fleet do not bother to attack enemy ships, they passing through. The only attack I experienced was when I blocked transatlantic way or at the port of Atlantis city, that's it. AI as well use peasants to attack my cities or units, what is complete waist of time.
     
  8. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Thanks stico! A great atmosphere is what im aiming for ;)

    Well dont bother much with the other eras, although you have some new city improvements they may not be play balanced (left overs from previous mods or vanilla civ3). There are defensive units, just check the unit lineups in the mod's website, but the better ones will require more strategic resources, and im not to blame if the AI fails to get them, although I may try helping them out a bit my placing more near their starting location.

    In your game, what ships were the Atlanteans using? Biremes or Triremes? The Atlanteans are the hardest civ to balance because if I make them too strong they'll reach the 2nd age too quickly and possibly over power everyone else, I have a few ideas I want to try though, and keep in mind they'll have stronger ships in the 2nd age, I just havent edited them yet :)

    Not much I can do about the AI using the peasants for attack, I need them to have the offensive flag or the AI wont upgrade them to Settlers when they have the gold. Peasant production is now restricted to the few cities lucky enough to have a Noble's House, so you wont see armies of Peasants many times, and a few marauding Peasants is not unrealistic either :)

    If you play with Hellas, your goal should be to improve your starting situation so you can survive if the Achaeans attack you (they're stronger in the beggining, but war with Atlantis may wear them down), and then to wipe them out and conquer Crete as well. In our history, the Myceneans (Achaeans) conquered the Minoans in Crete, in the mod's alternate history Crete is an Atlantean colony, it can still be seen as Minoa, with the added possibility of getting reinforcements from Atlantis.

    I sugest you try the Egyptians next, the lower Nile is dominated by the Atlanteans (two cities near the mediterraneum), you start at peace, sugest you build up your forces and improve your cities, then conquer those Atlantean colonies to remove them from the region and get access to the Mediterranean sea, but by attacking Atlantis you'll also declare war on Libya (locked alliance), so make sure you have a secondary task force to keep them away, and be wary of the Nubians to the south.

    I found the Iberic Spearman bug reported by Tom, its actually in the biq file, wrong civilopedia entry in the Tartessian Guard, should be "PRTO_Iberian_Spearman", I'll release the fix when I upload a patch hopefully tomorrow with some other tweaks (no new stuff though), if you want to start a new game before then, sugest you fix it yourself ;)

    I want to try a change to the American culture's city improvements, make them more expensive to maintain but provide a higher culture bonus, should slow down Atlantean economy, the other native american civs should not feel the difference very soon since they're too primitive, but eventually may slow them down as well, which is not unrealistic as I see it.

    Also thinking about limiting the production of the barbaric civ's Warrior unit with hidden nationality, so there are fewer raids (at least with armies of hidden nationality warriors), and possibly allow those primitive civs to build settlers the normal way for a bit longer, let them expand further while they're primitive.
     
  9. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Sorry for my vanishing act :)

    back at work on the mod this weekend, here's an update:

    fixed the other graphical bug reported by Tom;

    military alliances only possible with Diplomacy tech (2nd age), so they'll come later and hopefully there will be less large scale wars on the early game;

    barbaric warrior units no longer have hidden nationality flag (except American Slaver), I may although make a new city improvement that produces such units soon;

    Caste System tech now requires Masonry besides Mysticism, and all Noble House improvements now require Caste System instead of Masonry;

    all Noble House improvements now give tax bonus as well, to improve the economy so we can hopefully see the AI buying more settlers;

    Gold, Silver and Gem Mine improvements now give slight production bonus to make the AI eager to build them (these improvements produce treasure units which give gold when taken to the capital);

    To do, hopefully tomorrow:

    allow barbaric civs to build Settlers the standard way, and all civs to build Workers (Peasants without offensive/defensive capability), the Settlers will only be buildable until replaced by the Workers with Irrigation tech (there will still be Peasants that can be upgraded to Settlers with gold);

    make some city improvements of the american culture group require higher maintnance and give more culture, hoping to slow down american civ's economy (and tech research, especially Atlantis) but make them much more "cultured";

    upload the tiny patch right here so a new round of testing can start :)
     
  10. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Ok I've done the changes I talked about above, Settlers are now buildable for ALL civs until you research Irrigation (you may want to avoid that in the first turns if you want to expand, the AI seems to do it), with Irrigation comes not only that important worker ability, but you can also build Workers (costing 1 population, same as Settlers, and settlers become obsolete).

    I didnt have much time to play test yet, so your help would be appreciated.

    Turned off debug mode which I forgot last time :)

    This is a small patch, you still need the big 3.0 first, then overwrite when you unrar 3.1
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Yesterday I had some time to play a bit, and I concluded the changes I made to the city improvements of the American culture group are not enough to slow down the Atlanteans, they still develop too quickly, and I think the new tax bonus of the Noble Houses I set up to help other civs "buy" some settlers is having another effect, they may be buying techs from the Atlanteans instead, saw the Tyrrhenians and others reach the 2nd age way ahead of me (Hellas), and the Atlanteans at one time had over 1000 gold, so I dont know yet if I'll keep the Noble Houses tax bonus, need more testing. Here are some changes I'll do next:

    Increase tech costs (done, but must test)

    Remove some cities from the Atlanteans, possibly changing the big Atlantean island to a group of islands instead (still larger than modern Caribbean islands), making Atlantis their only city in American, and keep some Mediterranean colonies. Since the Barbarian camps actually represent Atlantean rogues, I'll increase their presence even more near Atlantis to keep them busy there. I dont know if it was something I did, but I finally saw the Barbarians spawning some Galleys!

    When I get to add the Canaanite civ, im thinking of setting up a locked alliance of Egypt and Canaan, against Atlantis and Libya, but not sure its acceptable (Egyptians in a locked alliance with Phoenicians for instances), it might help Canaan (Phoenicia) expand to north Africa as they take on the Libyans.

    I'll get back to this if I have some more ideas to implement in the next patch.
     
  12. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    While looking for some info on early Canaan, I found this:

    That fits what I want, an alliance between Egypt and Canaan. And when I say Canaan I mean the earlier city-states and Phoenicia, not Israel. Lets say in my scenario, there is no breakup of the Egyptian empire, so no exudus.
     
  13. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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  14. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    Came across this little relief map of Zealandia. May be useful for refining that part of your map.

     
  15. stico

    stico Prince

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  16. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Hey guys! thanks for those links!
    Nice to see still some interest in this, you may make me go back to work on this mod :)

    Strange that I didnt get an email notification about a new post here, havent been comming to this forum in a regular basis lately.
     
  17. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    One way I keep play interesting is to import the rules from a scenario onto different maps. I was thinking about editing - via bmp2bic, map tweaker, etc. - a smaller version of your map. Identical geography, probably minus the LM terrain placement. Think it would make for an interesting TAM variation. If I get around to that would it be okay to post the map here? If you would prefer me not to post it I understand.
     
  18. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Hi Blue! Of course! No problem :)
    the map I use is not even 50% mine, dont remember the original author's name right now, but that info should be around here somewhere. I think I posted a version of it in the download database a long time ago.
     
  19. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    These may be of help in refining the map:

    World Map of sea levels as of 11,000 BP. Small Large

    maps prepared by NOAA.
     
  20. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    Cool map! very usefull, although the sea-level drop in my mod is not so severe, since in my alternate story line the deglaciation was partial.

    Sorry if you're hoping to hear about updates to the mod, I have no idea when I'll resume work. Skyrim is taking the short free time I have :p

    If anyone is interested in helping and doing some work on the mod, im open to sugestions.
     

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