1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[MOD] Civics 'n' Stuff

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Dryhad, Nov 27, 2006.

  1. Dryhad

    Dryhad Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    451
    Ok, this is a mod I've been working on for a while. It's basically my attempt to mod the civics with some random extras.

    Spoiler Changes (compared to 1.61) :
    Civics:

    5 New Civics:
    Government - Oligarchy. Req Code of Laws. Medium Upkeep, +50% Food and Commerce in capital.
    Legal - Thought Control. Req Mass Media. High Upkeep, +2 free exp, 1 happiness per military unit in cities, -50% war weariness.
    Labor - Cybernetic. Req Robotics. Medium Upkeep, +100% science and culture.
    Economics - Corporatism. Req Corporation. High Upkeep, +1 trade route, -5 health, +10% commerce.
    Religion - Atheist State. Req Scientific Method. High Upkeep, no state religion, -2 happy for each non-state religion, +25% science, -50% culture.

    Universal Suffrage now doubles cottage growth and does not gold rush.
    Emancipation now gold rushes and does not double cottage growth.
    Decentralization renamed to Barter.
    State Property renamed to Planned.
    Theocracy requires Divine Right instead of Theology and also allows unlimited priests.
    Julius Caesar's favourite civic is now Oligarchy.

    Stuff:

    Buddhism requires Literature instead of Meditation and also gives a free missionary.
    Monotheism requires Meditation instead of Polytheism.
    Priesthood costs 80 instead of 60 and the first to discover recieves a Great Prophet.


    The download is at http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3712

    Any feedback is much appreciated :).
     
  2. Leif

    Leif Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    A state of Fear and Loathing
    I like Oligarchy, the rest are pretty good until the atheist state. While opinions may differ, I doubt Atheist states are inherently without culture, tolitarian states tend to be, but look at Czechoslovakia, over half of the population there doesn't go to church and they're doing fine. Atheist states should reduce one happy, but culture I believe should remain unfettered. If there is no church for people to sing in the choir, they could form a rock band.
     
  3. Dryhad

    Dryhad Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    451
    To be quite honest, I didn't have the culture penalty until recently. Why was it added? Because it's really really difficult to balance. If you just take it away, there'll be no civilisation that doesn't turn atheist, not even Saladin! I'm open to other suggestions, but I chose to reduce culture for two reasons:

    1) Culture is the reason for having no state religion. If Atheist State had a higher science output than Free Religion, it would effectively be the same thing with an extra bonus (it seems the happiness penalty was pretty trivial, at least in the AI's eyes).
    2) Religions produce culture in this game. Atheist State means they can't engage in their cultural activities. The game doesn't have the capacity for simply eliminating the culture boni from religions and religious buildings, so I went with a flat rate.
     
  4. Pegasos

    Pegasos Deities' Favourite Horse

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    Too near Russia
    What the... :twitch: I´m an atheist and I´m totally happy with my life even with out religion! And theres already that penalty from religions. It would be better balanced if they gave +2 happiness insted of +1. The influence of religion in happiness is under estimated in the vanilla game.
     
  5. Dryhad

    Dryhad Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    451
    Ah, but it's not the atheists who are unhappy, is it? Similarly, atheists would be unhappy under a theocratic government.
     
  6. Fiend777Fits

    Fiend777Fits Social Parasite

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2006
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Agrasse Knoll, Texas
    i agree with dryhad. the atheocracy should increase science output as well, if it isnt already.

    hey how about a satanic state?
     
  7. Dryhad

    Dryhad Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    451
    It is. Look in the spoiler box in the first post to see details.

    Why not Theocracy with Satanism as the state religion? (I have no intention at present to make a Satanism mod, though)
     
  8. Fiend777Fits

    Fiend777Fits Social Parasite

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2006
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Agrasse Knoll, Texas
    a satanic mod, eh? not a bad idea. everything will be backwards and blood will flow from the orifices of the innocent. et su pardeci nocturnum, et spiritu domine. commence, demon COMMENCE!!!
     
  9. Leif

    Leif Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    A state of Fear and Loathing
    Don't worry, I too am an Atheist and quite happy with it, however that is typically how it is handeled in other mods.
     
  10. Optimizer

    Optimizer Sthlm, SWE

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Messages:
    692
    There has never been a truly atheist civilization or nation, and I doubt there ever will or could have been.

    All constitutionally atheist states in world history have been socialist dictatorships, replacing religion with a cult of personality for a current or former leader. I have a "Leader Cult" civic in my current mod project, with no state religion or religion spread, but a tremendous happiness bonus from Monuments and Colosseums.
     
  11. Dryhad

    Dryhad Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    451
    This forms part of what Atheist State represents. A leader cult has no deities (You may argue differently. But it is indeed possible for such a cult to not have deities, and many have existed and still exist that recognise their leader, no matter how wonderful, was still mortal) and can therefore be accurately described as a-theist. The other part is a system where religion is simply banned. This is something that is surprisingly absent from the vanilla game, and so it was a natural choice for the religious slot in my five new civics.
     
  12. Optimizer

    Optimizer Sthlm, SWE

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Messages:
    692
    But states with cult of personality are not known for their scientific achievements, are they?
     
  13. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,714
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Hey, North Korea has the BOMB and Australia......well OK, maybe you're right that in some cases nations with Leader Cults are not scientifically well advanced :p :mischief:.

    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  14. Pegasos

    Pegasos Deities' Favourite Horse

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    Too near Russia
    I think the atheist state should give a science bonus, but slightly smaller than in this mod. It is true, that some current atheist states are not very advanced. But if you think US for example, there are much scientifical experiments that are not so allowed as it is not acceptable in the eyes of christian society (cloning is one of these things). But if US was an atheist state, these experiements would be much, much easier to make.
     
  15. Dryhad

    Dryhad Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    451
    The real question, as Pegasos points out, is whether that is because of the leader cult. I see no reason why it should be. Indeed, these nations are generally very concerned with their own appearance in the eyes of the world community, and technological advances are part of this.

    But the main part is banning religion. Whether it's replaced with a leader cult is, as far as this mod goes, irrelevant. Hence there's no boost to exp (for example) which might work well in a leader cult civic.
     
  16. MoonBase

    MoonBase Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    105
    Jets, Rockets, assault rifles, huge advances in the field of evil mass-production genocide... I'd say Nazi Germany did pretty well in the science department.

    (Not a constitutionally atheistic state, but definitely one where the Cult of Personality replaced traditional religion)
     
  17. Optimizer

    Optimizer Sthlm, SWE

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Messages:
    692
    There is great difference between theoretical research and invention. The former is done at a time-scale of generations, but the latter can be done in months, but requires good theoretical background.

    Imperial Germany was world-leading in natural science and philosophy, and the Weimar Republic kept up the good spirit. When Hitler grabbed power, most great scientists and thinkers emigrated, and those who remained made little new achievements during the twelve years of dictatorship. The Nazis discriminated "Jewish" branches of science such as quantum physics (which might have cost them the bomb).

    Many weapon development projects in Nazi Germany were indeed successful, but not significantly better than the allies.
     
  18. Pegasos

    Pegasos Deities' Favourite Horse

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    Too near Russia
    I don´t think that discriminating Jewish is a part of atheistic state or leader cult. Nazis could have easily won the WW2 if Hitler wasn´t so stupid. He made REALLY bad decisions (like not consentrating to the BOMB or beginning the operation barbarossa in autumn). Nazis had some good modern equipment and were good in production (allies however were better). So they had much potential, but screwed up.
     
  19. Optimizer

    Optimizer Sthlm, SWE

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Messages:
    692
    But as I said, an atheist state without a leader cult is not historically realistic. One could as well have civics like "Rule of the Shoeshiners" or "Apple-peel Currency".
     
  20. Leif

    Leif Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    A state of Fear and Loathing
    How about an atheist state takes away happy from churches, yet adds happy to theater and other secular entertainment facilities?

    Also, I don't believe that Nazi germany was a Atheist state in the least. While they were a bit secular, there were two state recognized religions, Protestantism and Catholocism. The Fascists spread propaganda of the Arians being linked to Jesus and strange expeditions were made to link the Arians with allegedly being the 'master race'.

    I'll give that Nazi Germany did discourage religion, but it was done selectively, it was closer to being an theocracy than an atheist state [theocracies are just as likely as atheist states to oppress on religious grounds, just for different reasons].
     

Share This Page