[Mod] Cultures unlocked from territory on Giant Earth Map

Discussion in 'Humankind - Creation and Customization' started by Gedemon, Sep 6, 2021.

  1. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    Assyria, and you can upgrade an outpost to a city anywhere as in the base game. For the other cultures, I don't plan to use the "reset territory" mechanism for the first era, when you've just placed outposts.

    And yes, I want to see how a kind of "restart" in some era (if you choose to, and there are some paths that won't feel that way, like Phoenicia->Carthage) plays on a full game.
     
  2. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    I'm new to this kind of modding, but from what I've seen so far, any change is possible on the gameplay side, the issue is more about finding how to deploy the mods the easiest way for the authors and the users.
     
  3. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    Alpha 3 attached to OP

    Changelog:
    • Fix backup Culture (Assyria ATM) not available for an AI once selected by another AI
    • Set Goths, Norse, Celts as Cultures available for multiple players/AI owning one of their territories
     
  4. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    How was it fixed exactly, please? Say AI or human player 7 picks Assyria, what will be left to pick for player 8? There will be 2 Assyrias?
     
  5. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    Fixed because there was a check in the code that I missed when the AI validates the order to change Culture (which didn't affect the human I think)

    The mechanism itself is that Assyria can be picked in multiple way by anyone:
    - its assigned "starting territory" (Iraq)
    - being player 7 or player 8
    - having collected 50 knowledge stars in the Neolithic Era (the last one in case a player near a Culture Starting Position lost it or do not settle in it, very rare in my test games, but happened once)

    So yes you can have multiple players with Assyria, and up to 3 with Goths (3 "starting territories"), 6 Celts or 6 Norse (very unlikely to have as much of the Celts/Norse as their respective territories are grouped together and quite far from the Starting positions of more than 1 player...)

    My current Alpha 3 game, testing multiple Goths (me from "Ukraine", AI from "South Sweden")
    Spoiler :
    upload_2021-9-14_12-28-1.png

    upload_2021-9-14_12-28-13.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021 at 7:50 AM
  6. Aquila SPQR

    Aquila SPQR Prince

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    It actually is a cool idea to have two or more players having the same culture, living next to each other. Like Greek city states or Germanic/Celtic/any other tribes, being separate states but sharing common culture.
     
  7. aguaacrobata2

    aguaacrobata2 Chieftain

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    Agreed... When two players have the same cultures and they start creating cities, do we get the same names for the cities? For example, in this case, the first city created by the "Ukranian Goths" would be called Gothinscandza, but if then the "South Sweden Goths" create a city would this one be called also Gothinscandza or Oium instead?
     
  8. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Well, Visigoths and Ostrogoths fought each other on the Catalaunian fields, and fought together against Franks later -- so this is most welcomed occurrence. By the way, before the fix player 8 would stay as a Neolithic tribe for the duration of the game -- not a very bad idea once we can set up 10 players and one such tribe in Australia.

    It is also cool to see Parthian Independents right next to Achaemenid Persians. I take it nothing can be done about other Independent people to spawn around their historical homeland during the corresponding eras?

    Without this mod but with your map I was trying to unlock Myceneans as player 6, but Indian player would always grab it first (even on easiest difficulty). AI just LOVES Myceneans...
     
  9. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    I was actually looking at the code to spawn independent people, and how much could be placed on the map (top limit seems to be 100, but I've not found where the actual limit is set yet, could be dependent of the number of majors, like 5x major empires, but then I've not found where the Major are set, except the max seems to be 16, not 10)

    First step for me is trying to have "rebels of..." (the independent people that spawn when "liberating" a city) take control of the territory of a previous culture, when changed and not part of the new Culture territory. Once done I may know enough to list territories for independent people the same way as I did for major Empires, and have them spawn in the correct era.

    Could be nice to have them spawn as "rebels of..." for a Culture that hasn't been chosen if its territory is still free at its corresponding era.
     
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  10. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    Started to code the next step
    Spoiler :
    upload_2021-9-15_0-31-28.png

    upload_2021-9-15_0-31-38.png
     
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  11. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    ho, and just found out that updating the city center visual is one line of code...

    So when the Capital city needs to change because it was in the previous territory, the new Capital get the new Culture style.

    Spoiler :
    upload_2021-9-15_0-58-48.png
     
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  12. Vanilla Feline

    Vanilla Feline Chieftain

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    Hey Gedemon, I have nothing to contribute but just wanted to let you know this looks wicked!

    I'm a big fan of your mods and they've honestly been the biggest reason I played Civ V and VI. Looking forward to this!

    Keep it up man!
     
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  13. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    @Gedemon Don't you think this mechanics is too harsh on human player and will completely ruin AI opponents? Perhaps we can find a middle ground? Like keep the old city/ territory if it was ever in new culture's greatest extent realm. Take Goths for example:
    Gothic_Kingdoms.png

    With this liberal interpretation your Knossos Goths can keep Mycenian lands.
    And lets talk some compensation. Early modern Settler unit can anachronistically appear near new capital for every old city lost to independents. They can build new city with up to date infrastructure. Also refund some influence for every lost territory.
     
  14. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    By the way, why does Byzantium get unlocked from West Anatolia only? Did you mean East instead? And also Balkans and Greece can be included, wouldn't you think so? There is no Thrace, so Constantinople is in Balkans on your map.
     
  15. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    I'd like to keep the starting territories relatively small (depending of the empire history of course), to prevent a (human mostly) player to easily lock some Cultures for the other players on era change.

    But I do need to change my current list, because it was made for alpha1 before I had a clear idea of the mechanism.

    What I'd like now is to unlock only by owning the capital territory and keep the "core" territories of the new Culture. In my table, the "capital territory" will be the first listed, the others being the territories that are kept when you already own them.

    With a few exceptions, the Cultures that can be unlocked by multiple players, those don't have a "capital territory", and owning any of them unlock the culture.

    So yes, the current territory list needs some edits, some potential "starting Empire" will be expanded.

    I also ponder adding Phoenicia to the multiple possible players list.

    And yes, refunding influence/gold is the planned compensation (and with a bit of fame too maybe, even if nobody cares)

    Maybe not too much so that you can't just buy back everything the next turn (or maybe I'll spawn hostile armies in those areas)
     
  16. Aquila SPQR

    Aquila SPQR Prince

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    I don't think I like the idea of losing territory when adopting new culture. I consider changing cultures in Humankind as "evolution" and I see no reason why my capital city for example should suddenly rebel and force me to siege it and conquer just because my society evolved.

    I hope this feature will be optional and not forced on players.
     
  17. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    I am a big fan of semi-historical play/ Earth maps, seeing accurate city names, more or less accurate cultures adds so much enjoyment when you want to re-experience history not just do things on abstract continents with abstract culture changes. Is there any way to publish the entire map with territory numbers/names showing for easy reference? I would like to contribute suggestions in revising the current list.

    Also can we please swap player 1 and player 2 starting locations? If you add Syria to Phoenicia list -- the player 1 starting in Iraq can unlock 4 cultures potentially: Babylon, Assyria, Phoenicia, Hittites (and even migrate to Harappa with some effort). Sometimes one wants to avoid all that Multiplayer leaders switching back from your pre-assigned order or avoid Multiplayer mode completely, so instead of starting in Africa with Nubia/Egypt choice -- starting in cradle of civilization for Single player (player 1) will be more convenient (more choices!).
     
  18. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    If I manage to use BepinEx, there should be options set in a cfg file, and surely that one, yes.

    Ideally the mechanism would be a complement of a stability overhaul, but that's long-term development.

    As I see it, you have a choice between transcend, evolve (a Culture which has the previous capital in its territories) and a split/revolution. Actually it's a "soft" split, as the old territory is either a friendly IP (city) or a free territory (outposts).
     
  19. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    to see the territory index you need to open the map in the editor and right-click on a territory to select it. But no point to do that now, as I've just noted that an update I'll need to do to the map will mess the current territory indexes and we'll have to start again after the update. So I'll wait for more feedback on the map first, then apply the mandatory changes, followed by the suggestions, then we'll lock the territory index list forever.

    Can't set number to slots in the editor, its renumbered automatically from 1 to 8 from bottom to top, left to right.

    You can start a private MP game and chose another slot.
     
  20. UncivilizedGuy

    UncivilizedGuy The Village Idiot

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    I agree with @Aquila SPQR. I love the idea of acquiring new cultures through geographic acquisition since this gives us a realistic cultural map. But losing territory for simply evolving to a new culture does not feel realistic. Large empires were and are made up of many cultures. I would prefer my empire fall apart due to stability issues. You used the American revolution as an example earlier. The collapse of the entire British Empire was caused by stability issues that were rooted in cultural differences. Maybe instead of losing territory have a major stability penalty for switching cultures. If we decide to remain as the original empire then have some rebel units spawn from the newly acquired cultural center. Just seems there needs to be more motivation to switch cultures if we are penalized with territory loss. Imagine after the American revolution that America crossed back over the Atlantic and conquered Britain.
     

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