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[MOD] Guns, Wyrms and Steel

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Milaga, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. Milaga

    Milaga Prince

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    Guns, Wyrms and Steel 0.31
    for Rise from Erebus 1.30

    Guns, Wyrms and Steel is my vision of the Fall from Heaven 2 world. For over a year I took notes as I played various FfH mods as to what worked and made sense and what didn't. I decided to start releasing parts of it gradually as modules rather than all at once as a single mod. Especially since there is a good chance I may never finish it. Hopefully this will encourage me to keep working.

    To install, simply put these archives in your Rise from Erebus\Assets\Modules\NormalModules folder and extract them. They will create the appropriate directory. When upgrading to newer versions of the module, just overwrite the files.

    If you are using GWS Buildings and GWS Steel, it is recommended you put GWS Buildings in the Rise from Erebus\Assets\Modules\LoadOrderVitalModules\FirstLoad folder.

    Each module can be installed independently for now. I have not yet tested which modules can be activated or deactivated without breaking saves. Buildings and Guns probably will, and Steel and Experimental probably do not.

    Spoiler Version 0.31 - 2010.08.17 :
    GWS Guns
    * The Arquebus is now a national unit with a 4 unit limit.
    * The Arquebus strength has increased to 10/14. They may now use bronze and iron weapons.
    * The Bone Horde strength has increased to 10/14. They may now use bronze and iron weapons.
    * The Musketman strength has increased to 14.
    * The Khazad have a unique Arquebus unit called the Blunderbuss. It causes collateral damage.
    * The Hippus have a unique Arquebus unit called the Dragoon Raider. It is a mounted unit.
    * The Arquebus, Musketman, Blunderbuss and Dragoon Raider now have 8 ranged strength causing a maximum of 60% damage and a 30% chance to cause a 30% defensive strike.
    * Due to their increased strength, all Arquebus units and unique replacements have had their cost increased from 180 to 240. The cost of the Bone Horde was not changed.
    * The Legion of D'Tesh will now produce Bone Horde instead of Arquebus units.
    * There is a new promotion, Black Powder, that prevents progression beyond Combat II and increases the change of a miscast by 5%.
    * All gun using units Arquebus, Dragoon Raider and Man O'War units start with the promotion Black Powder.
    * The Trebuchet has replaced the Cannon for most civs. It requires Machinery.
    * The Catapult UU, Trebuchet, is still available to the Khazad with Construction and for half the cost of the one available at Machinery.
    * In addition to the civs that could use a Cannon, the Trebuchet is also available to the Austerin, Calabim, Cualli, Doviello, Hippus, Mazatl and Scions.
    * The Trireme, Carrack and Frigate may no longer bombard city defenses. If you want to bombard a city from the sea, load up some siege weapons.
    * The Carrack and Frigate may no longer perform ranged attacks.
    * The Frigate, Galleon and Queen of the Line now require Iron or Copper.
    * The Man O'War now causes significant collateral damage.
    * The collateral damage on the Ironclad has been increased to match that of the Man O'War.
    * Dwarven Cannon, Howitzer, Man O'War and Ironclad now require gunpowder and either copper or iron.
    * The Aquilan Thopter, Airship and Lenora may no longer pillage.
    * The Airship can now explore rival territory.
    * Siege and Naval units may no longer be upgraded.

    GWS Steel
    * The Iron Weapons promotion has been renamed to Steel Weapons.
    * There is a new Iron Weapons promotion that provides 1 strength.
    * Bronze Weapons have a +10% bonus vs. Iron Weapons.
    * Steel Weapons and Mithril Weapons no longer have a bonus versus lower weapon tiers.
    * Iron Working has been renamed Steel Working.
    * Iron is now visible with Mining and workable with Smelting.
    * Bronze Weapons now require Bronze Working in addition to copper.
    * Iron Weapons requires Smelting and iron.
    * Steel Weapons now require Steel Working in addition to iron.
    * There is a new building, the Blacksmith. It is available at Mining, allows for 1 Craftsman and provides a 10% bonus in production with Iron.
    * The Guild of Hammers provides a free Blacksmith to every city instead of a Forge (or nothing).
    * If you are running both GWS Buildings and GWS Steel, the Mines of Gal-Dur will once again require Arete.
    * Bronze Weapons can only be acquired in a city with a Blacksmith, Forge, Dwarven Smithy or Factory in the city.
    * Steel and Mithril Weapons can only be acquired in a city with a Forge, Dwarven Smithy or Factory in the city.
    * Iron Weapons can be acquired in any city.
    * Mithril Weapons provide +25% resistance to Cold, Fire and Lightning.
    * Javalin Thowers had their cost reduced to 60 to be in line with archers. They no longer start with Skirmisher, but may take the promotion for free at any time.
    * The Skirmisher promotion now reduces collateral damage taken.
    * There is a new promotion, Picket, available with the Military Strategy tech. It may be taken for free by any melee units in the same stack as a great commander. It increases the chance to defend the stack like Skirmisher but is removed after combat.
    * Warriors and other Tier 1 melee units can no longer acquire weapon promotions.
    * Axemen, Swordsmen and other Tier 2 melee units can no longer acquire Mithril Weapons.

    GWS Buildings
    * This module should now be loaded before other GWS modules.
    * Minor changes to be compatible with GWS Steel.
    * Removed unwanted tags from some of the wonder changes.
    Spoiler Version 0.30 - 2010.08.10 :
    GWS Buildings
    * There is a new wonder, The Eternal Flame, available with Elementalism. It requires and provides Fire mana.
    * The Clan of Embers have a unique version of the The Eternal Flame. It is available with Mysticism.
    * Bazaar of Mammon is now a world wonder. It requires and provides mind mana.
    * Aquae Sucellus now provides life mana and grants 1 free specialist for the Tomb of Sucellus.
    * Shrine of Sirona now provides spirit mana and grants 1 free specialist for Sirona's Beacon.
    * Guild of Hammers now requires and provides earth mana. It no longer grants a free forge for every city.
    * Soul Forge now requires death mana.
    * The Nexus requires and provides dimensional mana.
    * The Mines of Galdur now requires the Smelting tech.
    * The Calabim have a unique version of the Pillar of Chains. It provides a free Governer's Manor in every city.
    * Temple of Kilmorph grants 1 free specialist for Mount Kalshekk.
    * Temple of Leaves grants 1 free specialist for Standing Stones.
    * Temple of the Overlords grants 1 free specialist for Rinwell Isle.
    * Temple of the Empyrean grants 1 free specialist for Mirror from Heaven.
    * Temple of the Order grants 1 free specialist per Citadel, Citadel of Light, Dwarven Fortress.
    * Temple of the Veil grants 1 free specialist for Bradeline's Well.
    * Elohim Monastaries grant 1 free specialist for Bradeline's Well (Purified.)
    * Smuggler's Ports grant +1 happiness with Mercantilism civic and 1 free specialist per Pirate Port.

    GWS Experimental
    * Markets and Monuments no longer change gold, science or culture production in the city.
    * Markets allow one citizen to turn into a Merchant and provide 1 free specialist per fishing boat, pasture, plantation.
    * Monuments allow one citizen to turn into a Bard and provide 1 free specialist per unique improvement.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Milaga

    Milaga Prince

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    This first two modules I released are all changes to buildings.

    The Buildings module is inspired greatly from Magister Cultuum's mod. Many wonders now require certain mana types in order to build, and will also provide mana. I really like this idea, as it lets civs only build some wonders that are flavored for them. Of course, any civ could acquire the appropriate mana to build a wonder, but when you start the game with the mana in your capital you have a distinct edge at building the wonder. The new wonder is from Magister Cultuum's mod.

    The Experimental module is a radical way of dealing with the Monument/Market solution for quick culture growth and economy growth. The monument does not provide culture and the market does not provide income. The idea is that you can't just simply build these buildings to solve your problems. Building them allows you access to specialists, who can provide the same benefits.

    This will be a major nerf to the monument, but potentially a massive boost for the market, depending on the city plot. I'm still not sure what I think about this idea.
     
  3. Riot_Starter

    Riot_Starter Warlord

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    Wow, some of these changes are pretty cool. Namely, the free specialists for improvements idea. Using the statesman mechanic, wouldn't it be possible to say the free specialist HAS to be a merchant/bard/priest/etc. instead of letting, for example, a market give sages.

    Also, the mines of Galdur needing smelting is great. Getting iron that easily that early always bothered me and felt like a cheat. Needing smelting gives you the opportunity to build iron when you don't see it in your territory.

    Unique versions of wonders is also a strange idea. Not sure how I feel about that yet. Seems cool, but... I don't know.
     
  4. Milaga

    Milaga Prince

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    Yes, although how this was accomplished wasn't obvious from the XML. The free specialist mechanic I learned about from Magister's mod. Apparently it was part of BTS, who knew?

    I'm reluctant to force a specific specialist because of great person dilution. But with the statesman mechanic, it would be possible to grant free Citizens instead of specialists. The monument could then add +1 culture to Citizens and the market +1 gold. This is how I'd like to do it, but is making specialist yields changes specific to a city even possible? As far as I can tell you can only make civ-wide changes.

    I really think that the mines should be a way to get iron to a region of the map that does not have iron, but not as a way to get iron early. This wonder has more changes in store for it.

    The civ specific version of the Pillar of Chains is really there because, flavorwise, it's the Calabim wonder. Likewise for the Clan wonder. I have more changes planned in this department, mostly taken from Magister's mod.
     
  5. Riot_Starter

    Riot_Starter Warlord

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    The national park wonder gives free specialists for the forest preserve improvement in BTS.

    Seems to me that if a player didn't want, let's say, merchants, then they wouldn't make a market.

    This seems pretty cool, but like you said this isn't possible with the current setup afaik.
     
  6. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    First off: Nice mod. Adding it to the download list. ;)

    QUOTE=Riot_Starter;9470494]Wow, some of these changes are pretty cool. Namely, the free specialists for improvements idea. Using the statesman mechanic, wouldn't it be possible to say the free specialist HAS to be a merchant/bard/priest/etc. instead of letting, for example, a market give sages.

    Also, the mines of Galdur needing smelting is great. Getting iron that easily that early always bothered me and felt like a cheat. Needing smelting gives you the opportunity to build iron when you don't see it in your territory.

    Unique versions of wonders is also a strange idea. Not sure how I feel about that yet. Seems cool, but... I don't know.[/QUOTE]

    It would not be possible, no. Seeing as the statesman tag is on the improvement, not a building... This would mean that those improvements would always give the specialist. No way currently to have it require a building, aside from possibly python to swap out any plantation for an identical improvement that has the specialist.

    Also: Already have a unique CoaTS for Kurios/Jotnar.
     
  7. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    It seems valk said it was impossible to assigne fixed specialists. So I've got a (maybe) stupid idea :
    1. market : +2merchant slot, -1 sage slot (dunno if it is possible) But thus it would force you to use more free specialist into merchant than into sage.
      maybe you can create a national wonder that needs 5 markets and gives +1:gold: to merchant and great merchants
    2. monument : one sometimes really need that early culture boost... (if you erase it, creative becomes much more powerful)
      option :
      -+bard slot per world improvement and per ?mana node? can you link it to the ressource in the fat cross or do you need the improvement ? (I propose mana node as a node is actually always good in territory but bad in the fat cross.
      or +1bard slot per world improvement + 1:culture:

    For the wonders...
    I'm kinda itchy for some :
    -guild of hammers needing/giving earth mana is strange IMO. It is a smithing wonder : so forge is good. if you want to not give forge to every city make it give +1:hammers: to great craftsman and craftsman +1 free craftsman or maybe 1free specialist for copper, iron an mithril ressources in fat cross.. (or do you need improvement?) or 1free specialist for having some iron, copper, mithril in civ.

    temple of leaf getting bonus for standing stone is bizarre : the stones are earth mana providers ... more a Kilmorph thing.
    maybe it would give a bonus for the "seven pines"?

    Temple ofthe Overlords for the Rinwell isle is alos bizarre as the rinwell isle is mostly in the middle of nowhere in the ocean. It becomes hard for to get it into one's cultural boundaries and even harder to have in into one's fat-cross .

    Other changes seems good to me.
     
  8. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    I like the idea of gaining free specialists from UFs, good thinking.

    I don't like the idea of Unique Wonders, it defeats the purpose of wonders in the strictest meaning IMO. But I can see myself changing my mind about it (I'm already thinking it may be cool in fact...)

    However I don't like the Market and Monument change. Specialists too early, too many.
     
  9. darkedone02

    darkedone02 The Suggestor

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    What I don't like about this is how you removed my precious gold bonus for markets! I needed that in Diety :(

    oh well, i have to rely on debug cheating on great engineers to make master crafts like fletchers and smiths.

    you said guns, but where is the guns? XD
     
  10. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    well, darkendone02
    any wity with a 1-2 pasture/plantation/fish-boat will automatically get 1-2 free specialist ; ergo at least a free merchant (+3:gold: ; no science malus) and maybe even more than one specialist : you can put this one as a craftsman or priest... as mostly my capital has at least 2 of pasture ressource or plantation ressource or sea ressource.

    true, the malakim won't generally have that in the desert (only incense and camel... but still can have fishes)

    But I think you are right for the dilution.
    And great graftsmen are important to get, but they are hard to conceive, as their are few GCraftsman wonders, and forge and craftsman workshop are a bit late.
     
  11. Jabie

    Jabie Wanted in Monte Carlo...

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    I like the changes to the temples, it adds a little flavour to each of them.

    I don't like the changes to the Market and, especially, the Monument - these are meant to be quick fixes. You want to get that newly captured city expanding it's culture quickly and the extra cash the market brings in is balanced by the drop in science.

    I'm not keen on many of the World Wonders requiring a specific mana type. Whilst the experienced player will understand the importance of grabbing a Node for Metamagic so that you can dispel that Water node (hey I've transformed all my deserts to plains) in order to make a Dimensional node so that they can build the Nexus and get that inter-continental invasion really rolling, I suspect the AI will be utterly clueless about it and, as a consequence, many Wonders will remain unbuilt by the AI.
     
  12. Milaga

    Milaga Prince

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    Good point.

    I don't think you can take away specialist spots.

    You can't grant specialists based on resources, unfortunately. And I agree, the irony of a mana node is that they are great to have, but not as a workable plot. Upcoming additions to the Building module will include more free specialists for mana.

    The Guild of Hammers is more about construction and engineering than smithing. The wonder is renamed the Guild of Endeavors in Magister's mod. It's a change I'm considering making as well.

    The Guild of Hammers already gives +1 hammer to craftsmen and great craftsmen. Now that I think about it, providing a free Artisan's Workshop in every city is much more appropriate and not nearly as overpowered as a free forge. Although it still is pretty strong for this wonder to not only improve the craftsmen specialist but put a building in every city that allows them.

    I had to double-check this before changing the temple because I make this mistake often as well. Standing Stones provide Nature mana. At one point (in FfH vanilla?) they provided Earth mana.

    Yes, but I can think of no better unique improvement for this religion. You can't win them all.

    Free specialists encourages building wonders in cities other than your capital in a more flavorful location. It also adds further incentive to build your cities near them. I like it too.

    I don't intend to overuse Unique Wonders, but it allows for granting some civs advantages for wonders that might fit them lorewise. I have a few ideas for more but I am not convinced the added benefits are worth cluttering up the Rifepedia.

    I'm working on the Guns module next. But if you like guns, you probably won't like parts of that module.

    In practice, however, this is not the case. If you play with enough AI opponents (I play with 5-8) you'll find that they all are built eventually. I still get beaten to wonders. At least I did before 1.3 came out. Also, I don't think the AI makes good use of the Nexus anyway so I'm not terribly worried about that one.

    This is why these changes are in a separate module. If you don't like them, don't bother downloading it. If you want to try them, let me know what you think. I am not entirely sure I like these changes either.

    Monuments still allow for quick culture growth and Markets for improving the economy. If you want to use them for this you will need to use a population point rather than just building and forgetting.

    I don't like diluting my great people so I wind up going RoK to manage my economy anyway. :rolleyes: This might change with some of the other buildings I'm working on, but it really speaks to me about how easy-mode buildings with flat +gold bonuses are to the economy.
     
  13. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    Buildings will get overhauled in 1.5 anyway.
     
  14. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    1. I thought you meant a free mana instead of free forge and +1:hammers: per craftsmen. I still think earth mana in not "in theme" with this wonder. Why not give a free iron or free mithril ?
    2. for stones ... my mistake . The last game I encountered it was when I was playing Wild-Mana.. and they have it as an earth-mana providing.
    3. well I not against diluting my GP pool. It's just that craftsmen slots/wonders are really rare that I'd rather not use any specialist save craftsmen and few wonders. Usually I get a lot of prophets/scientists... and too few GC... in RifE, few GC is always 1 not enough !
     
  15. northeaster345

    northeaster345 Chieftain

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    I was just thinking order + kurios and pioneers, you could abuse that really hard with the free specialists unless of course it's limited to a specific number, also the same general problem with the market
    ^^still, does it give free specialists for settlements?
     
  16. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    oh my... !!
    you've got a real point here...
    and for the Jotnar too... and the city of a thousand slums :D
    (but worse for the kurios)
     
  17. Milaga

    Milaga Prince

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    I am not especially worried about this. You're not going to be using a Great Commander to build these forts, so you will need to build them with workers and then wait for them to upgrade all the way to a citadel.

    And in the pipeline for this mod is a mechanic to provide diminishing returns to spamming improvements. You will not be able to fill your plots with citadels.
     
  18. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    no Milaga.
    If I'm not making a mistake we are talking about 3rd ring cities (36 plots per city): 1000slums, Kuritoates and Jotnar.
    Such cities can easilyhave many many pastures + plantation + fish boat + citadel (even if only 4), as there are many more plots than a standard city. It can even maybe have a UB (maybe 2specialists for that one : one from monument and one form another temple).
    it adds to a big big specialist city even at a small size.
     
  19. Milaga

    Milaga Prince

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    I am aware of this. These changes are more beneficial for those cities, I agree. Changes to health have lowered the population cap for most, which was more of a nerf for sprawling cities that normal ones.

    Besides, the ability to work three tiles is something only a handful of cities will be able to do in a given game.

    I originally had a lot more specialists for the temples, but some changes in RiFE made some of them impractical. Since you can build a camp anywhere, having the Temple of Leaves grant a free specialist for each one is a bit much.
     
  20. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    if it's designe... considered and balanced... then I've got no issue with it :D

    (well, for kurios and 1000 slums cities, it seems you are right, as the health system gave them a bigger nerf than other cities.
    As for the Jotnar, I don't know how Valk will redo them.
    But IIRC, they were once meant to have 3ring cities... but little population ; the 3rd ring only allowing to have better choice of tiles, not being an excuse for big big cities. We discussed it somewhere on the forum. That would mean that for them the "exploit" mentionned up there would be counter-lore-ish and maybe OP.)
     

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