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Mod of CEP Mod

Discussion in 'Communitas Expansion Pack' started by EricB, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. EricB

    EricB Prince

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Hi guys,

    Attached is my own mod of the CEP mod if you would like to try it out. I've been working around the clock for the past several days building this thing. In the past I had a ton of changes to the CEP mod. I modified the CEP files directly to do that. Finally, I built my own separate mod. Much cleaner this way.

    Anyways, there are tons and tons of changes from the CEP mod. It requires the CEP mods to work, so don't bother trying without that first. If you were to count the number of individual adjustments from CEP it may number around 200 changes.

    All you need to do to get it to work is install that civ5mod file in your MODS directory (under My Documents/My Games/CIV5 usually). I've tested just about all of it when it was running within the CEP mod. Some modest testing as a separate mod. It's stable and doesn't crash your system. Some effects are easier to test than others. I tested all the easy ones that don't require playing a full game.

    Mostly, this mod is designed to improve the balance of the CEP mod. Things that were less useful are buffed. Things that were too good are nerfed. It coves a wide range of areas of the game. I created a short text file with a summary guide of the changes. It's unpacked when you download and set up the mod for the first time. It'll be in the mod directory. I also extensively commented the code. It's divided into a lot of files so that it's easy to find exactly what you're looking for and so when there's an error I can trace it to its source quicker. Basically modular programming design but with just XML.

    Many, many leaders have been tweaked. A couple of highlights are that I added a Longship unit for Denmark (still need quality art for it at the moment). Netherlands Trade Office is a naval building in the mod. I made significant changes to England, Carthage, and many others. About 20-25 civs have been affected in some way. Many policy tweaks, especially in the later trees. I attempted to re-balance some beliefs. Chopping is reduced to 40 production.

    Anyways, please give it a try. Let me know what things you like and what you don't. Suggestions are welcomed as it's a work in progress. I've incorporated lots of ideas into it that I've seen people write about on this board.

    Hopefully, this increases fun as that's the goal! :)
     
  2. stackpointer

    stackpointer King

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    Great work! Now that I finished most of the modifications needed to get YieldLibrary and TopPanel files running for BNW, I'll probably play a couple games with this and CSD active.
     
  3. secondcircle

    secondcircle Chieftain

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    I'll give this a try.
     
  4. agc28

    agc28 Warlord

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    EricB,

    Please continue to release your ModMod after every major release of Thal's mod. I know this is a lot to ask for, and I very much look forward to your ModMods.

    On a side note. You might want to name your Mod "EricB Mod of CEP 3.14.1". And sync with the version number in the future.
     
  5. Tomice

    Tomice Passionate Smart-Ass

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    Thanks alot for your effort! While I don't agree to all your changes, you certainly have convinced me of your skill as modder. I know there is a lot of thought and testing in this!

    I hope there will be a lot of people trying both versions of Communitas in comparison. This should speed up the development process. I personally have been travelling for the last 10 days, so I have to check some of the forum discussions and especially your posts explaining your changes before commenting in detail.
     
  6. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Do you have a changelog?
     
  7. Tomice

    Tomice Passionate Smart-Ass

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    There is a quick summary file within the download and each change is commented in detail. Here is the summary:

    Spoiler :
    EricB's Mod of the Communitas Mod

    Summary of Changes

    Terrain
    Great Person Tile Improvements Rebalanced to value science, then production, then gold
    Natural Wonders rebalanced in the same way as great person tile improvements


    Research
    Adjusted the layout of some techs in the tech tree, particularly in the ancient/classical eras.
    Horseback Riding tech in late classical era
    Sailing tech in early classical era
    Optics tech in late classical era
    Compass tech in late medieval era
    Composite Bowman moved to Engineering to allow more even spacing between the Archer, Composite Bowman, and Crossbowman units
    Triremes moved to Sailing
    Cargo Ship moved to Optics
    Work Boat (and corresponding builds for the work boat) moved to Calendar so it's still available in the ancient era while naval battles begin in the classical era
    Landsknechts removed from the game
    Forest Chopping moved to Mining
    Faster movement on roads moved to Horseback Riding (in late classical era)
    Museum moved to Guilds
    Barracks moved to Bronze Working
    Stonehenge moved to Pottery
    Hagia Sophia moved to Philosophy
    Flavian Amphitheatre moved to Construction
    Angkor Wat moved to Political Science
    Most national wonders moved to later in the tech tree to prevent wide empires from building them too. National wonders are designed to benefit tall empires only to help level the playing field.
    Heroic Epic moved to Physics
    National Epic moved to Theology
    National College moved to Education
    Oxford University moved to Scientific Theory


    Cities
    Science and culture slowed at the start of the game to allow for a longer ancient era and prevent the capital from being a super-powered city
    Small palaces eliminated (still appear, but have no effect - working on getting them to disappear completely). This was done to remove the arbitrary ideal number of 3 cities
    Happiness and gold remain the same early in the game
    Purchasing of buildings requires 300% gold instead of 200%

    Wonders
    Hagia Sophia yields +12 faith (merely a bug patch until the working Communitas release comes out)


    Specialists
    Scientist yields 2 science
    Engineer yields 3 production
    Merchant yields 4 gold


    Civilizations
    23 Civilizations modified in some way, mostly buffed weak ones. A couple of nerfs.
    America - buffed Minuteman, nerfed NASA building, more powerful starting units
    Aztecs - free woodsman promotion on land units, chinampa buffed
    Brazil - golden ages last longer
    Byzantium - free great prophet at Theology
    Carthage - removed sailing tech, removed free harbors, added new naval promotion for ships, starts with Bireme and Trireme
    Denmark - removed Jelling Stones, added Longship unit (replaces Carrack)
    England - starting Trireme, removed ship XP, added faster ships and free Targeting 1 promotion, removed Longbowman, added Ship of the Line and buffed it slightly
    Ethiopia - added +1 faith to Stele
    Greece - reduced city state retention ability (still strong, but not overpowering anymore)
    Inca - buffed Slinger, free Mining tech
    Indonesia - civilians can embark immediately, starting Bireme to protect those early civilians
    Iroquois - buffed Longhouses
    Japan - reduced combat from 37 to 28 for Samurai
    Morocco - Buffed Kasbah, starts with animal husbandry
    Netherlands - Moved Trade Office to be a strong Harbor
    Ottoman - starting Trireme
    Portugal - Nau may cross oceans immediately (which is late medieval era)
    Russia - restored Tundra start priority, added Arctic Power promotion to land units, buffed Krepost
    Siam - farms yield +1 gold (added to help them have the cash to buy city states, which happen to be more expensive now)
    Songhai - removed Siege promotion from unit, added Drill 1 promotion for Songhai Cavalry unit. +1 production in unimproved jungles.
    Spain - Conquistador gets a Siege promotion, loses missionary abilities
    Sweden - removed farms giving +1 production, free units have +20% strength and no upgrade discount
    Venice - +1 science to all tile improvements to help them compensate for getting zero science in puppet cities. Major buff that I've test some and they seem to be a middle of the pack civilization now.


    Religion
    Great Prophet delta increased so they appear a little less often
    Many religious beliefs adjusted
    Nerfs
    Fertility Rites
    Peace Loving
    Ancestor Worship
    Choral Music
    Liturgical Drama
    Pilgrimage
    World Church

    Buffs
    Tears of the Gods
    Monument to the Gods
    Sacred Waters
    Pagodas

    Messenger of the Gods changed to give benefits on Whales and Truffles


    Policies
    Many policy changes, mostly in the later trees
    See files for details, but here's a list of changed policies
    Oligarchy
    Citizenship
    Honor Opener
    Gladiators
    Spoils of War
    Military Caste
    Piety Opener
    Charity
    Piety Finisher
    Patronage Opener
    Special Relationship
    Fine Arts
    Flourishing of the Arts
    Wealth Opener
    Entrepreneurship
    Maritime Infrastructure
    Caravans
    Protectionism
    Mercenary Army
    Colonization
    Entire Knowledge Tree

    Notable things to point out in the policies area are:
    Patronage - the Special Relationship policy is being used to increase the decay rate for influence with city states, so that it's harder to hang on to them.
    it's designed so that some city states will not be allied with any civilization, even late into the game, thus making a Diplomatic victory tougher
    Knowledge - the entire tree has been re-worked so that it's a tree for tall empires to benefit greatly from, just like wide empires benefit greatly from the Exploration tree.
    Ideologies - I would like to re-balance these as they are horrible, but haven't got into it yet.


    AI
    Many flavors were adjusted whenever a policy, unit, building, etc is used differently than before so that the AI can used them correctly (as best as any AI could do so anyways)


    Unit Promotions
    Siege promotion available later
    Medic promotion heals 10 for the unit and 5 for adjacent units
    Naval Siege promotion available later
    Naval Recon promotion modified to give +1 movement and +1 sight

    Units
    Combat strength of the Musketman unit reduced so that it's more in between the Rifleman and the Arquebusier


    Naval Combat
    Early ships cannot heal with a Naval Supply promotion (which comes after Targeting 3, so a 4th tier promotion)
    Modern ships start with an ability to heal themselves and can also earn that Naval Supply promotion


    No guarantees that there are not bugs, but I've tried hard to get rid of as many as possible. If you find any, let me know. Some may be due to bugs in the CEP mod, which is required to use this mod.



    And here is an example how the code is commented. This is the "America" file in the "Civs" folder (use notepad++ to open the file so various parts of the code are coloured differently - comments would be highlighted green):
    Code:
    <GameData>
    	<!-- Remove Free Tech from NASA Center Building -->
    	<Buildings>
    		<Update>
    			<Where Type="BUILDING_NASA_CENTER" />
    			<Set FreeTechs="0" />
    		</Update>
    	</Buildings>
    	
    	<Civilization_FreeUnits>
    		<!-- Delete starting units for America -->
    		<Delete CivilizationType="CIVILIZATION_AMERICA" />
    		<!-- Add a Settler, Worker, and Scout for America -->
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_AMERICA</CivilizationType>
    			<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_SETTLER</UnitClassType>
    			<Count>1</Count>
    			<UnitAIType>UNITAI_SETTLE</UnitAIType>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_AMERICA</CivilizationType>
    			<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_WORKER</UnitClassType>
    			<Count>1</Count>
    			<UnitAIType>UNITAI_WORKER</UnitAIType>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_AMERICA</CivilizationType>
    			<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_SCOUT</UnitClassType>
    			<Count>1</Count>
    			<UnitAIType>UNITAI_EXPLORE</UnitAIType>
    		</Row>
    	</Civilization_FreeUnits>
    
    	<!-- Increase Movement and Combat Strength for the Minuteman -->
    	<Units>
    		<Update>
    			<Where Type="UNIT_AMERICAN_MINUTEMAN" />
    			<Set Combat="26"
    				 Moves="3" />
    		</Update>	
    	</Units>
    	
    	<!-- America Text -->
    	<Language_en_US>
    		
    		<!-- American Trait -->
    		<Update>
    			<Where Tag="TXT_KEY_TRAIT_RIVER_EXPANSION" />
    			<Set Text="All land military units have +1 sight. 50% discount when purchasing tiles. Starts with a Scout and a Worker." />
    		</Update>
    		
    		<!-- American Minuteman -->
    		<Update>
    			<Where Tag="TXT_KEY_UNIT_HELP_MINUTEMAN" />
    			<Set Text="Renaissance Era Vanguard Unit unique to the Americans. It is stronger than the Arquebusier it replaces, moves faster, and sees further." />
    		</Update>
    	</Language_en_US>
    </GameData>

    One could just delete the whole file to keep America as it is in "normal" Communitas.
     
  8. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Thanks. I'm not in a situtation where it's easy for me to dig things out of files at the moment.

    But overall, I like these:
    Spoiler :

    Landsknechts removed from the game
    Small palaces eliminated
    Denmark - removed Jelling Stones, added Longship unit (replaces Carrack)
    England - starting Trireme, removed ship XP, added faster ships
    Inca - buffed Slinger
    Japan - reduced combat from 37 to 28 for Samurai
    Netherlands - Moved Trade Office to be a strong Harbor
    Portugal - Nau may cross oceans immediately
    Sweden - removed farms giving +1 production,



    I don't like these:
    Spoiler :

    I don't think it is so simple to say that science is better than production is better than gold. In particular this undervalues gold, and how valuable it can be when you specialize your cities appropriately (eg around trade route cities and those with lots of multipliers), and how gold multipliers (market, bank, etc.) are much larger than other multipliers, so 10 gold can really end up being 17 gold, while 10 production is probably only multiplied up to 12 production. And 17 gold is going to be a lot more useful than 10 production, give how flexible it is.
    There is just no way that science is twice as valuable as gold or that production is 50% more valuable than gold.
    So I disagree with the specialist rebalancing too: engineers need to give less production than hills, merchants shouldn't give more gold than villages, specialists should be about GPP not raw yields.

    I don't see any need for this.

    Anachronistic, poor flavor, and bad strategically in that it makes artist slots too available too early and devalues the various wonders that have artist slots.

    Too accessible, and weird flavor.

    I think the free harbors are a big part of what makes Carthage interesting, I think making them into a naval rush civ is a mistake. IMO no civ should start with 2 units early game, it's too much of an advantage: those civs that get some special unit should lose the warrior.

    I think longbowmen are fun and flavorful, and naval UU risks making England too specialized.

    Is this likely to cripple them economically? I'm not sure, but I worry. Sweden seemed to have this, and it made them very weak in most games.

    This is much too strong. No boosts to core improvement yields as Civ UAs.

    This makes no flavor sense based on their actual historic terrain.

    Seems like a weird solution and not very flavorful. Better to fix their puppets directly I think.

    I'm a bit leery of this in that it changes the calculus of being a city state ally. If you increase the decay rate making it harder to be friends without also increasing the benefit of being allied with them then you just make it not worth pursuing city states.
    If it only comes in in the very late game, when city state allies are mostly about world congress and victory then it's probably ok, but if it comes in earlier when city states are still supposed to be a form of economy investment where we mostly care about their yields, then it's a problem.

    Personally I would prefer junking all the changes in CEP and going back to vanilla. I much preferred having land economy/naval economy/knowledge trees than gold/colonization/tall

    As discussed, this cripples many uses of navies.



    A lot of the others I have no particular opinion on or would have to think about more.
     
  9. ExpiredReign

    ExpiredReign Deity

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    I haven't yet given it a go but but based on the feedback and the details listed I would have to agree with a large portion of Ahriman's concerns.

    Sailing tech move -- no don't see the need
    Museum change -- ditto
    England -- I like the longbowman
    Songhai -- jungle bonus?

    These are the few that leap out at me as in need of review.

    EricB, as you can see, making a mod that appeals to everyone is next to impossible. You can see now why CEP is such a remarkable mod, with such a wide base of changes made it still manages to maintain a large user base despite ALL of us disliking at least one aspect of it. Hats off to Thal for managing to keep a user base willing to put up with weird design choices.
    Additionally the input from many, many experienced users is not to be under-estimated, it is a wealth of knowledge that should be mined for all it has.
    To the users.:goodjob:
     
  10. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Oh absolutely. Can't say this enough. And great that you're pushing on further, with your own vision.
     
  11. EricB

    EricB Prince

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    I found a bug today in the mod with England. It crashes upon starting a game with England. It took a while, but I found the source of it. It was in the Ottomans unique ability area. In there I was setting up the Ottomans starting units. I copied and pasted from England when making the file and there's 1 spot where it still read 'England' instead of Ottoman. Fixed it and it's working now.

    I found it while working on implementing those naval changes. I can get the new mod uploaded in a bit. Still testing it...

    In short, the plan is to have naval ships heal differently based on what ship it is.

    Here's the plan:
    Triremes and Biremes heal 20 in friendly, 5 in neutral, and 0 in enemy territory
    Carracks and Galleasses heal 20 in friendly, 10 in neutral, and 0 in enemy territory
    Frigates and Galleons heal 25 in friendly, 15 in neutral, and 0 in enemy territory
    Ironclads, Destroyers, Submarines, Battleships, and Carriers heal 30 in friendly, 20 in neutral, and 5 in enemy territory
    Missile Subs, Missile Cruisers, and Missile Destroyers heal 35 in friendly, 25 in neutral, and 10 in enemy territory.
     
  12. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Why? This seems like unnecessary complexity to me.
    Note that already: modern ships are faster and can much more easily get to friendly territory, and in the late game a turn is 1 year rather than 30 years.

    35 healing per turn seems way too strong (it could be more than the damage you take from someone attacking you); 5 healing per turn seems way too low; it takes 20 turns to fully heal and so has all the problems we already talked about in terms of making early naval units frustratingly weak. I really don't understand why you're trying to change mechanics in a way that undermines using naval units in the early game, when they're already less useful because there are fewer coastal cities or enemy ships for them to fight and fewer sea trade routes (though I'd agree they need some stats reductions to balance them).

    It seems much simpler to just set 0 in enemy, 10 in neutral, 20 in friendly, 30 in own city for all naval units.
     
  13. EricB

    EricB Prince

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    So I edited that mod slightly today. I added that naval combat stuff. It may or may not work out. Ahriman may be right that it's too complex. Perhaps there's an easy way to just make it modular so people could play with whatever style they'd like. If you'd like to try it out without that stuff it's easy to comment it out (or delete) from the 2 naval files it's in.

    Also, changed Carthage setting them up like people recommended:
    Free Trireme
    No starting warrior
    no sailing tech
    free harbors
    units crossing mountains
    cothon building that grants tyrian purple resource
    african forest elephant

    Plus, fixed a bug with England's units being accidentally deleted and starting with nothing.

    Also added in a version number so that people can easily identify which CEP version it's compatible with. I'm heading out of town for a bit so probably won't be able to do much for a while. Just wanted to get the content out there in case someone wants to use it. Like I said, the link on the original post is updated to a new file.
     
  14. Tomice

    Tomice Passionate Smart-Ass

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    Thx, EricB! This version of Carthage should be a bit more balanced while keeping it's core assets. The delayed start of land exploration should be enough of a nerf. :thumbup:

    @Ahriman:
    During the discussion about about naval healing I found that it is interesting having to rely on local allies for quick repair of major damage. Or on the newly suggested Great Admiral with a healing function (similar to the Khan). The 5 healing are a compromise to allow for healing of minor scratches from barbarian encounters and such.
    But I could imagine that 10 would turn out the minimal for fluent gameplay. I just suggested to keep it as low as possible to make other healing sources worthwhile.

    I do fully agree that it doesn't make sense for later ships to heal faster than early ones. Early on, we neither have allies nor great admirals, and our ships are slower, so we need the healing effect more than ever.
    The high lategame healing on the other hand devalues healing from allies and great admirals.

    So I think 5-10 per turn in neutral territory is the sweet spot throughout all eras.
     

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