Lonecat Nekophrodite
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2019
- Messages
- 2,815
There's a reason why Four Ages System should be implemented here as follow.
1. There are too wide 'Transitional Lost Ages' in between. And each age is TOO SHORT.
2. The most problematic age is Exploration (Age 2 in current system), Gunpowder weaponry evolution is described incorrectly. Also everything is too crammed up to my likings.
Unit Lists
Antiquity (Basically almost unchanged, except name conventions).
*Barge is a paddle longboat, alternatively dubbed 'Canoe'. it is a direct predecessor to (oared) galley
www.nancreativecity.org
** Renamed from Quadrireme. and it should looks more imposing with twin towers.
Feudal
* Renamed units
- Footmen is now a combined arms infantry, basically 'medieval spearmen' with shock attackers added to the mix (swordsmen who sometimes wielded axes)
- Halberdier is just a renamed pikemen. Halberds were used more, basically as a screening elements to pikemen block
- Knights in full plate armor, incorrectly described as the High Middle Ages units while in truth they shown up near the end of Middle Ages.
** Medieval Galley actually. this included Norsemen Longships and Mediterranean Dromons and Chelandes.
*** Arquebusiers and Musketeers having a range of 2 hexes are historically inaccurate. what it did at THAT range (300 meters away, maximum effective range of archers and crossbowmen) is only psychological damage that hardly affects hardened veterans. even of a musket does a hit at that range. it could only would a person but doesn't do a killshot, if targeted opponent wears plate armor, at that range musketry lost AP factor.
Quite a converse. Forged Iron Bombards are miniaturized into cart mounts and adjustible tillers. and even swivel guns used primarily as naval and fortress point defenses. used also as field artillery as Jean Bureau demonstrated its usefulness in field battles of Castillion (itself was a siege, but the Battle against English Relief Effort led by John Talbot and his son is 'Siege turns Field' battle) and Formigny (1450, This is an actual field battle where iron forged cannons are designed and used for field battle is first used there). Any gunpowder field artillery existed before (Including Song era gunpowder field artillery shown up in the 'Book of Fire Dragon') weren't really effective weapons, dealing more of psychological, and less of physical damage. even one that it does a real kill (Ribaudequins, A.K.A. Organ guns, which itself the first field artillery in Europe) does more of scaring enemies off. While there are so many barrels on a ribaudequin, each of these bores were as small as arquebuses and muskets which will be developed later. but so many barrels means more reloading times. Something scatter shots (grapeshots or canister shots) used by bigger field cannons of any kind does MUCH better in just one barrel. (same ROF as a generic ball shot).
Basically any bombard crews showing in the actual game wore wrong outfits. these chaps still wore armor (remember Hundread Years War infantrymen).
#Carrack is now equipped with deck cannons and swivel guns. actually more of light guns and not really so many cannon, no more than 20 big guns, most of these were old school bombards. Also still more reliance on boarding actions.
Exploration: Heavily Reworked due to some units shifted
Some more descriptions
1. This is equivalent to Renaissance in previous Civ games. Generally any unit dressings of the late Age II (standard) will be generic dressigns of the entire reorganized Age III. This also should be when Rough Seas affect deep ocean navigation until a certain tech is research.
2. Pike and Shotte should ideally has a range of 1 hex away. But this came at graphical prolems--Pikemen didn't carry firearms so there's no shooting animations.
3. Musketeer returns! originally as Musket-heavy Pike and Shotte (Dutch Battalions, and later Swedes Squadrons. Both of which are nemeses to Imperial Tercios), and developments of light muskets and volley tactics, and later flintlocks and bayonets. pikemen elements abandoned their pikes and recieved musketry drills as well. In some countries where flintlocks and bayonets weren't developed or adopted (until much later), musketeers were simply advanced foot soldiers that developed musket volleys to the point of being 'arts' and 'science'. Such examples were Ming, Qing, and Vietnamese Divine Machine Corps. The other classic examples were Ottoman Janissaries (and other islamic copies), Muscovite Streltsy, Early 18th Century Burmese and Ayutthayan army (it is said that their respecitve core elements developed their brands of Linear Infantry on their own, the true 'Line Infantry' as truly Europeanized were a very late invention there.
4. All ranged units here used trunioned guns. though Coulverin is a hybrid 'Tiller and Trunion' field cannon, with some iron forged examples existed, and some casted irons and bronzes existed as well.
5. Cuirassiers in base game is misplaced. Evolutionary path included either Pistolier or Harquebusier for some reason, because while Harquebusiers were originally 'light' cavalry, Gustavus Adolphus II repurposed them as heavy chargers because Sweden was poorer than Holy Roman Empire (and Spain) and thus a large number of heavily armored poistoliers (who are heavy chargers) is simply beyond their reach.
6. Naval Light is generally faster than Naval Heavy, and cheaper to make and operate. good as attacks, bad as defense. and ill suited when attacking city unless a move to capture.
7. Great Carrack has more guns than ones of previous age. basically these are rebuilts of previous iterations. one Carrack begun as Clinkers only to be converted to carvel hull (Mary Rose is an example). I might even consider 'Galleon-> Race Built Galleon -> Man of War.
Modern: The final age. and thus Five Tier System is used here
Evenmore descriptions
1. There are requests to add Line Infantry in between Musketmen and Infantry in Civ6, oddly there's no requests for Line Cavalry regardless that they're basic heavy chargers of 18th - 19th Century--Big men on big horses with or without cuirass plate armor. and even without armor doesn't mean they're less dangerous. British Empire is really fond of the use of armorless heavy cavalry. Basically 'Cuirassiers' of this era are incredibly rare. too often associated to elite guards. Later on these Line Cavalry became more gunny particularly as advanced firearms (particularly revolver pistols) became available.
2. And Line Infantry of some civs aren't graphically represented properly. while generic Europeans got either Mid 18th or Early 19th Century, Asians, Middle Easterners, and Africans got 1860s era uniforms. Basically this is Riflemen uniforms (and IRL 'Siamese Line Infantry' shown in Haw Wars already used breechloading Snider Rifles by then! not flintlock Brownbess of the Ayutthaya - Kaungbaung wars - Siam VS Dai Viet war which King Rama III fought against Emperor Min Mang of Nguyen Dynasty.)
They already used breechloading Sninders now.
Well I don't mind them wearing Kepis, while historically they switched to wider crown caps like this.
3. Howitzers as defined in Civ7 is incorrect. Originally it meant a kind of siege artillery developed by Swedes in 1690s.
And the name 'Assault Gun' is lame. the actual name should be Self Propelled Artillery
4. And Cavalry transitions to AFVs. mmmm not really easy to pinpoint 'when'. But Cavalry with many Infantry wargear including Submachineguns and Light Machineguns, Hand Grenades and same Steel Helmets did existed well into WW2, and even as late as Rhodesian Civil War, where Whitemen Tyrants used these horsemen armed with modern assault rifles against Black Insurgents back in 60-70s. and it still worked very well. However, Motorizations did play a pivoting role in modern warfare. The First Armored cars existed even before the WW1 broke out, but did little in front line, what that did alot are early tanks (Landships). However these weapons were very 'One Offs'. Designed to break the unbreakable trench lines of the Western Front (and it did). Only as fast as a man's walking pace. Much slower than an average horse gallop. and mechanically unreliable (as per internal combustion engines of that time, which only at the second stage of evolutions). After these weapon's sucess in 1918, it never saw any action ever again after that. And armored car resumed development as to respond to Colonial Insurgency after the war ends. One such interesting development is a kind of duplex drive of 'tanks' that can be driven with wheels just like any armored car.
www.tankarchives.ca
However the first truly 'mobile' tank has to wait until late 1920s with Carden Lloyd eventually developed Tankettes for exports. and shortly later Vickers 6 ton.
5. Light Naval units lineups aren't really correct, Firaxis never understood Ironclads correctly. these were heavy ships. Ironclads are by no means 'light'. Hampton Roads is really an exception rather than a rule.
6. And 'Heavy' naval unit is where Ironclads should be. and should also be represented as Pre-Dreadnoughts.
And 'Heavy' should mean 'more powerful'. what shown up in actual Civ7 games are sorely nerfed.
To be continued. Buildings and Wonders.
Age | Antiquity | Feudal | Exploration | Modern |
Year Intervals | 6000 BC - 0 AD | 400 - 1400 AD | 1400 - 1700 | 1700 - 2000 |
1. There are too wide 'Transitional Lost Ages' in between. And each age is TOO SHORT.
2. The most problematic age is Exploration (Age 2 in current system), Gunpowder weaponry evolution is described incorrectly. Also everything is too crammed up to my likings.
Unit Lists
Antiquity (Basically almost unchanged, except name conventions).
Unit Classes | Tier 1 | Tier 2 | Tier 3 |
Infantry | Warrior | Spearman | Phalanx |
Cavalry | - | Chariot | Horseman |
Ranged | Slinger | Archer | - |
Siege | - | Ballista | Onager |
Naval | Barge* | Galley | Polyreme** |
*Barge is a paddle longboat, alternatively dubbed 'Canoe'. it is a direct predecessor to (oared) galley
ประเพณีแข่งเรือยาวจังหวัดน่าน - nancreativecity
The Long Boat Race Festival in Nan Province, Thailand is a celebration that takes place annually in the province of Nan, located in northern Thailand.
www.nancreativecity.org
Feudal
Unit Classes | Tier 1 | Tier 2 | Tier 3 |
Infantry | Footman* | Man At Arms | Halberdier* |
Cavalry | Cataphract* | Knight | Heavy Knight* |
Ranged | Heavy Archer | Crossbowman | Serpens*** |
Siege | Mangonel | Trebuchet | Bombard |
Naval | Long Ship ** | Cog | Carrack# |
* Renamed units
- Footmen is now a combined arms infantry, basically 'medieval spearmen' with shock attackers added to the mix (swordsmen who sometimes wielded axes)
- Halberdier is just a renamed pikemen. Halberds were used more, basically as a screening elements to pikemen block
- Knights in full plate armor, incorrectly described as the High Middle Ages units while in truth they shown up near the end of Middle Ages.
** Medieval Galley actually. this included Norsemen Longships and Mediterranean Dromons and Chelandes.
*** Arquebusiers and Musketeers having a range of 2 hexes are historically inaccurate. what it did at THAT range (300 meters away, maximum effective range of archers and crossbowmen) is only psychological damage that hardly affects hardened veterans. even of a musket does a hit at that range. it could only would a person but doesn't do a killshot, if targeted opponent wears plate armor, at that range musketry lost AP factor.
Quite a converse. Forged Iron Bombards are miniaturized into cart mounts and adjustible tillers. and even swivel guns used primarily as naval and fortress point defenses. used also as field artillery as Jean Bureau demonstrated its usefulness in field battles of Castillion (itself was a siege, but the Battle against English Relief Effort led by John Talbot and his son is 'Siege turns Field' battle) and Formigny (1450, This is an actual field battle where iron forged cannons are designed and used for field battle is first used there). Any gunpowder field artillery existed before (Including Song era gunpowder field artillery shown up in the 'Book of Fire Dragon') weren't really effective weapons, dealing more of psychological, and less of physical damage. even one that it does a real kill (Ribaudequins, A.K.A. Organ guns, which itself the first field artillery in Europe) does more of scaring enemies off. While there are so many barrels on a ribaudequin, each of these bores were as small as arquebuses and muskets which will be developed later. but so many barrels means more reloading times. Something scatter shots (grapeshots or canister shots) used by bigger field cannons of any kind does MUCH better in just one barrel. (same ROF as a generic ball shot).
Basically any bombard crews showing in the actual game wore wrong outfits. these chaps still wore armor (remember Hundread Years War infantrymen).
#Carrack is now equipped with deck cannons and swivel guns. actually more of light guns and not really so many cannon, no more than 20 big guns, most of these were old school bombards. Also still more reliance on boarding actions.
Exploration: Heavily Reworked due to some units shifted
Unit Classes | Tier 1 | Tier 2 | Tier 3 |
Infantry | Pikemen | Pike and Shotte | Musketeer |
Cavalry | Lancer | Harquebusier/Pistolier | Cuirassier |
Ranged | Coulverin | Demiculverin | Field Cannon |
Siege | Cannon | Mortar | Howitzer** |
Naval Light* | Balinger | Caravel | Brigantine |
Naval Heavy# | Great Carrack | Galleon | Man of War |
Some more descriptions
1. This is equivalent to Renaissance in previous Civ games. Generally any unit dressings of the late Age II (standard) will be generic dressigns of the entire reorganized Age III. This also should be when Rough Seas affect deep ocean navigation until a certain tech is research.
2. Pike and Shotte should ideally has a range of 1 hex away. But this came at graphical prolems--Pikemen didn't carry firearms so there's no shooting animations.
3. Musketeer returns! originally as Musket-heavy Pike and Shotte (Dutch Battalions, and later Swedes Squadrons. Both of which are nemeses to Imperial Tercios), and developments of light muskets and volley tactics, and later flintlocks and bayonets. pikemen elements abandoned their pikes and recieved musketry drills as well. In some countries where flintlocks and bayonets weren't developed or adopted (until much later), musketeers were simply advanced foot soldiers that developed musket volleys to the point of being 'arts' and 'science'. Such examples were Ming, Qing, and Vietnamese Divine Machine Corps. The other classic examples were Ottoman Janissaries (and other islamic copies), Muscovite Streltsy, Early 18th Century Burmese and Ayutthayan army (it is said that their respecitve core elements developed their brands of Linear Infantry on their own, the true 'Line Infantry' as truly Europeanized were a very late invention there.
4. All ranged units here used trunioned guns. though Coulverin is a hybrid 'Tiller and Trunion' field cannon, with some iron forged examples existed, and some casted irons and bronzes existed as well.
5. Cuirassiers in base game is misplaced. Evolutionary path included either Pistolier or Harquebusier for some reason, because while Harquebusiers were originally 'light' cavalry, Gustavus Adolphus II repurposed them as heavy chargers because Sweden was poorer than Holy Roman Empire (and Spain) and thus a large number of heavily armored poistoliers (who are heavy chargers) is simply beyond their reach.
6. Naval Light is generally faster than Naval Heavy, and cheaper to make and operate. good as attacks, bad as defense. and ill suited when attacking city unless a move to capture.
7. Great Carrack has more guns than ones of previous age. basically these are rebuilts of previous iterations. one Carrack begun as Clinkers only to be converted to carvel hull (Mary Rose is an example). I might even consider 'Galleon-> Race Built Galleon -> Man of War.
Modern: The final age. and thus Five Tier System is used here
Unit Classes | Tier 1 | Tier 2 | Tier 3 | Tier 4 | Tier 5 |
Infantry | Line Infantry | Rifleman | Shock Troops | Assault Infantry | Mobile Infantry |
Cavalry | Line Cavalry | Cavalry | Combat Car*/Carabinier* | Medium Tank | Main Battle Tank |
Ranged | Horse Artillery | Rifled Cannon | Quick Firing Cannon | Antitank Gun | Gun Howitzer |
Siege | Howitzer | Siege Rifles | Siege Artillery | Self Propelled Artillery | MLRS |
Naval Light | Frigate | Cruiser | Light Cruiser | Destroyer | Missile Frigate |
Naval Heavy | Ship of the Line | Pre Dreadnought Ironclad | Dreadnought | Battleship | Heavy Missile Ship* |
Submarine | - | - | Submarine | - | Boomer Submarine |
Carrier | - | - | Aircraft Tender | Carrier | Supercarrier |
Combat Aircraft | - | - | Biplane | Fighter | Jet Fighter |
Ground Attacking Aircraft | - | - | Trench Fighter | Dive Bomber | Gunship |
Bomber | - | - | Biplane Bomber | Heavy Bomber | Stealth Bomber |
Evenmore descriptions
1. There are requests to add Line Infantry in between Musketmen and Infantry in Civ6, oddly there's no requests for Line Cavalry regardless that they're basic heavy chargers of 18th - 19th Century--Big men on big horses with or without cuirass plate armor. and even without armor doesn't mean they're less dangerous. British Empire is really fond of the use of armorless heavy cavalry. Basically 'Cuirassiers' of this era are incredibly rare. too often associated to elite guards. Later on these Line Cavalry became more gunny particularly as advanced firearms (particularly revolver pistols) became available.
2. And Line Infantry of some civs aren't graphically represented properly. while generic Europeans got either Mid 18th or Early 19th Century, Asians, Middle Easterners, and Africans got 1860s era uniforms. Basically this is Riflemen uniforms (and IRL 'Siamese Line Infantry' shown in Haw Wars already used breechloading Snider Rifles by then! not flintlock Brownbess of the Ayutthaya - Kaungbaung wars - Siam VS Dai Viet war which King Rama III fought against Emperor Min Mang of Nguyen Dynasty.)
They already used breechloading Sninders now.
Well I don't mind them wearing Kepis, while historically they switched to wider crown caps like this.
3. Howitzers as defined in Civ7 is incorrect. Originally it meant a kind of siege artillery developed by Swedes in 1690s.
4. And Cavalry transitions to AFVs. mmmm not really easy to pinpoint 'when'. But Cavalry with many Infantry wargear including Submachineguns and Light Machineguns, Hand Grenades and same Steel Helmets did existed well into WW2, and even as late as Rhodesian Civil War, where Whitemen Tyrants used these horsemen armed with modern assault rifles against Black Insurgents back in 60-70s. and it still worked very well. However, Motorizations did play a pivoting role in modern warfare. The First Armored cars existed even before the WW1 broke out, but did little in front line, what that did alot are early tanks (Landships). However these weapons were very 'One Offs'. Designed to break the unbreakable trench lines of the Western Front (and it did). Only as fast as a man's walking pace. Much slower than an average horse gallop. and mechanically unreliable (as per internal combustion engines of that time, which only at the second stage of evolutions). After these weapon's sucess in 1918, it never saw any action ever again after that. And armored car resumed development as to respond to Colonial Insurgency after the war ends. One such interesting development is a kind of duplex drive of 'tanks' that can be driven with wheels just like any armored car.
Medium Tank Mk.I: First of the Maneuver Tanks
A blog about World War II era archive documents, primarily dealing with armoured warfare.
However the first truly 'mobile' tank has to wait until late 1920s with Carden Lloyd eventually developed Tankettes for exports. and shortly later Vickers 6 ton.
5. Light Naval units lineups aren't really correct, Firaxis never understood Ironclads correctly. these were heavy ships. Ironclads are by no means 'light'. Hampton Roads is really an exception rather than a rule.
6. And 'Heavy' naval unit is where Ironclads should be. and should also be represented as Pre-Dreadnoughts.
And 'Heavy' should mean 'more powerful'. what shown up in actual Civ7 games are sorely nerfed.
To be continued. Buildings and Wonders.
Last edited:
