Mod Project: Crossroads of Civilisation

Mongoloid Cow

Great Khan
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Messages
2,816
Location
Adelaide, Australia
I've decided to start this mod focusing on Central Asia. It is an interesting part of the world, where several civilisations meet, conflict and intertwine. I haven't decided much on definites, but here's a rough outline of what I'm thinking.

General area covered by mod:

The outline is only rough. It is slightly distorted for all intents and purposes, but it shows what I'm looking to cover in this mod. Japan and Korea are out. I'm not sure either would bring much to the mod, since they would be on the very peripheral, far away from the fun and action.

Civilisations:
This is the final civ list:
Arabia, Bactria, China, Gök Turks, Kazakhstan, Manchuria, Mongolia, Mughalistan, Nepal, Parthia, Persia, Russia, Scythia, Seljuq Turks, Tibet, Uighuria, and Yunnan (Dali).

All these civs but the Gök Turks at present need city lists, leaders and so forth. I do need a name for the Gök Turkish UU though. It is a horse unit replacement.

Religions:
In no particular order: Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Manichæism, Zoroastrianism, Islam, Confucianism, Taoism. That is eight, one more than optimal, but it covers all the important ones.

Luxury Resources:
The kind of luxuries popular throughout Central Asia, of course: Cotton, Gold, Silver, Jade, Incence, Fur, Pearls, Gems, Ivory, Spices, Silk, etc. Nothing is decided on which to add though.

Wild Animals:
Lions in Mesopotamia, Tigers in Siberia and India, Wolves in the northern forests, Bears in China and Russia (?)

Units:
Here's where I have some big ideas.
- Camel units. Made slightly weaker than horse units, but have a 50% fight bonus against horses. This is because horses are offended by the smell of camels and have to be specially trained to not go nuts around them. Horses get a promotion to even things out though, but it won't come easy (or it will, pending play balance). It will be Bactrian Camels over Dromedaries though.
- Naphtha and Flame units. A part of Central Asian warfare was the use of explosives and flames by several units. I'm thinking Lancers, Naphtha Archers, Grenade Archers, etc.
- Nuts inventine units: There was real ingenuity in battle in this part of the world. War Wagons, fearsome siege engines and weapons, cattle-back archers, wicker-shielded archers, etc.

Victory conditions: The United Nations has to be replaced with something. The C.I.S. or that Pan-Indian alliance one are good contenders. I also have a secret plan for a new one. Not divulging on what it would entail though.

Improvements: Not too much going on here. I'll add Caravansarais for sure, but I can't think of what else.

World Wonders: More fun here. I want to add: the Taj Mahal, the Orkhon Monument, the Stupa of the Wild Goose, the Apadana, and the Potola Palace. Come running with more suggestions :)

Nomadism vs. Sedentarism: This is going to be the hardest part of the mod: creating an entirely new nomadic system in perfect balance with a sedentary system. I don't know computer coding so I could never do this, so I would need help with it (in other words: someone else to do it). I don't think Firaxis has yet released what is even needed to program this in the first place. Playtesting it is the only way to make it balanced. So what I need is suggestions of what to do with making nomadic, semi-nomadic and sedentary systems harmonised and distinct, or a way to ensure that this aspect of Central Asian culture and history does not appear to have been ignored at will.

Tech Tree: It is probably a bad idea to talk about this before anything else is fleshed out.

What I'm forgetting: I always forget something. This is a disclaimer.
 
Yes, the British replace the "z" with "s" in some words. Just like they spell the word honor like "honour." It's their spelling, which Australia has come to accept given their roots in relation to England.
 
actualy as english is an older language then american its the americans which changed the 's' to a 'z' and removed the 'u' in honour and colour.
 
Personally, I spell it Civilization, but only because that is what the game is called. It also avoids confusion, and rude posters like the one above. I see no reason to translate it into my native language (English), and also, names are usually left along in translation.

Anyway... good luck with the mod! There had better be a Mongoloid Cow in there somewhere :)

EDIT: As much as it pains me to say this, I believe American English is actually more faithful to "English" as it was when America was formed than English English is, although it doesn't matter in the slightest really - languages change.
 
You know, the game manual I have spells the game "Civilization", but then spells it "civilisation" when refering to the civs ;) American English is actually less faithful to "English" than the English spoken everywhere else in the world. The exception is the "S"s and "Z"s in words like "civilisation". They were originally spelled with a "Z", but it was changed in the 18th - 19th Centuries to "S" because it is more aesthetic and pleasing to the eye. NuclearPowered, no one will ever take you seriously if you do not even know common, legitimate variant spellings and standard English.

I hope that covers all discussions of linguistics of the English language.
 
I've done some thinking, and I'm reckoning these 8 civs for starters.

Arabia:
Leader: Caliph Jafar al-Ma'mun ibn Harun (al-Mamun)
Traits: Philosophical and Expansive
UU: ?

China:
Leader: Empress Wu Zetian
Traits: Organised and Industrious
UU: ?

Gök Turks:
Leader: Tuman Khan
Traits: Aggressive and Organised
UU: ?

Mongolia:
Leader: Genghis Khan
Traits: Expansive and Ogranised
UU: Keshik

Persia:
Leader: Emperor Cyrus II the Great
Traits: Spiritual and Creative
UU: Immortal

Russia:
Leader: Empress Catherine II the Great
Traits: Financial and Expansive
UU: ?

Tibet:
Leader: Emperor Songtsen Gampo
Traits: Spiritual and Philosophical
UU: ?

Uighuria:
Leader: Kutlugh Bilge Khagan
Traits: Financial and Creative
UU: ?
 
Interesting idea!

When it comes to Nomadism and Sedentarism, you could add them as civics.

It could look something like this:
Nomadism: 50 free units, no war weariness, -50% worker rate, no upkeep cost from number of cities, no cottage growth.
Nomadic society with city-states: 50 free units, +1 food from Farm, +2 health
Sedentary Society: +1 food from Farm, +1 commerce from Cottage/Hamlet/Village/Town, +3 health.
 
definitely include opium...which was a huge contraband trade from asia to the rest of the world ie english and spanish empires

maybe look at jls added resources (salt, pearls, coffee etc)..the salt resource looks more like opium.
 
Optimizer said:
Interesting idea!

When it comes to Nomadism and Sedentarism, you could add them as civics.

It could look something like this:
Nomadism: 50 free units, no war weariness, -50% worker rate, no upkeep cost from number of cities, no cottage growth.
Nomadic society with city-states: 50 free units, +1 food from Farm, +2 health
Sedentary Society: +1 food from Farm, +1 commerce from Cottage/Hamlet/Village/Town, +3 health.
Thanks :) I too thought about Civics, but I don't know how well they would work. It's definately something to keep in mind :)

Epicurist said:
definitely include opium...which was a huge contraband trade from asia to the rest of the world ie english and spanish empires

maybe look at jls added resources (salt, pearls, coffee etc)..the salt resource looks more like opium.

How did I forget Opium? I made a point to myself to remember it :lol: I'll take a look at jls resources. Thanks for the tips.

How is this for luxuries?
Incense, Silk, Opium, Pearls, Gold, Silver, Jade, Ivory, Gems, Furs, Cotton, Bollywood Movies.
- Opium, Ivory and Fur cease to be luxuries at a certain point.
- Opium, Silk and Bollywood Movies are accessible only in eras "Classical" and beyond.

I don't think Spices would make a good luxury because there is no lack of variety of flavours in Asian food.
 
1: If we worried too much about spelling there wouldnt be an internet. People take spelling nazis even less seriously.

2: I think spice should still be a luxary. It was a big deal in trade in history with spices going to europe. Europe isnt in the game but the trade is. Bollywood movies? Thats very country specific and spices seems more fittng then bollywood.

3: Having Mongolia, The Golden Horde, and the Il-Khanate seems a bit odd too since they were close to the same thing in the grand scheme of things. You have plenty of competing civs in the areas that the golden horde and khanate would be in. It would be like having czarist russia and communist russia as different playable races. Perhaps get rid of China but leave them broken up as the seperate factions. They warred amoungst themselves for most of history anyways.

4: I agree with leaving out Judiaism. Its impact on history is important but more so for areas off the map (europe and israel).

This is a good unique idea. Hope to see it happen :)
 
Bollywood Movies was just a filler. Since three luxuries become obsolete, I needed three luxuries to replace them. It was the best I could come with in the 10 seconds I thought about it :D Another problem with Spice is that the origin of most of it historically (the Philippenes) will not be included. A possible workaround would be to place it in major trade areas and cities, but it seems a cheap cop-out to me.

I doubt I would ever include the Il-Khanate. A case could be made for the Golden Horde though IMO. For splitting up China, a similar case could be made for Persia. What suggestions for civs do you have? I realise that I'm probably going to go up to ~20 - 22 all up, so there are 10 - 12 slots left. ATM, I'm considering Manchuria, Yunnan (Dali), Mughalistan and Kazakhstan as another four. There are two "China" civs in there (using the term loosely).
 
Mongoloid Cow said:
You know, the game manual I have spells the game "Civilization", but then spells it "civilisation" when refering to the civs ;) American English is actually less faithful to "English" than the English spoken everywhere else in the world. The exception is the "S"s and "Z"s in words like "civilisation". They were originally spelled with a "Z", but it was changed in the 18th - 19th Centuries to "S" because it is more aesthetic and pleasing to the eye. NuclearPowered, no one will ever take you seriously if you do not even know common, legitimate variant spellings and standard English.

I hope that covers all discussions of linguistics of the English language.


Believe it or not, American English is closer to Shakespearean English than modern British, and much of the rest of the world was colonized by Britain, thus taking on British English (just like we did) but they split from Britain much later and thus reflect the later changes in British.

It's dangerous to say what is more true to what. If we're talking Old English, German's more true to it than any modern English. If we're talking about RP (or BBC English) then America is untrue to it, but if we're talking about 16th century English, then American is much more true to it.
 
Are you setting it at a specific time in history, or just trying to take civilizations from across time and put them together (historical or fictional)?
 
I am going for historical civilsations from 4000BC - 2000AD. I am also going for civilisations which had some large and clear impact, or effect if you will, in Asia in most of Asia in general. Super-ancient civilisations, such as the Harappan, or smaller civilisations, such as the Basmyls, aren't going to be included as they don't meet that criterion.

Believe it or not, American English is closer to Shakespearean English than modern British, and much of the rest of the world was colonized by Britain, thus taking on British English (just like we did) but they split from Britain much later and thus reflect the later changes in British.

It's dangerous to say what is more true to what. If we're talking Old English, German's more true to it than any modern English. If we're talking about RP (or BBC English) then America is untrue to it, but if we're talking about 16th century English, then American is much more true to it.
That last line wasn't lost on you ;) Linguistics is not my specialty, so I can only go on from what I have heard / read.
 
Introducing the first civ: the Gök Turks:

Leader: Bumin Khan
Traits: Aggressive and Organised
Leader: Bilge Khan
Traits: Philosophical & Industrious
UU: **** Cavalry*
Colour: Sky Blue
Symbol: Gold Wolf's Head

Cities:
Ötüken
Balasaghun
Talas
Qarabalgasun
Ergenikon
Khavavent
Hoten
Beşbalik
Nawmanjkat
Saihan Toroi
Dunhuang
Al-Malik
Yassy
Santan
Sofank
Qarqan
Lop Nur
Bolçu
Kroraina
Keş
Tarbagatay
Kadirgan
Benlaq
Aqbulaq
Qaraqamyş
Scaaidan
Teljian
Shawqat
Namgan
Temir Kapig

* - I need a word to put in here. The obvious are "Gök" Cavalry (after the empire) or "Oghuz" Cavalry (after the main constituent tribe). But I don't find either to be preferable. "GöK" means "sky-blue" and it seems very uninspired to name a UU "Gök Cavalry". Calling it "Oghuz' would lead to serious confusion, since the Oghuz are more renown for living north of the Aral Sea in the 10th Century, and being the main tribe from which the Seljuqs originated.
 
Have you thought of what strategic resources to add?

I thought of these:
* Saltpeter, needed for all kinds of flame units.
* Camels, needed for Camel units, of course.
* Donkeys, increasing production speed of Settlers and Workers.
 
I've got Naphtha instead of saltpetre. The latter is more common that it is pointless making it a resource. Besides, Naphtha units are cool and were, by and large, used more than gunpowder units (albeit in different eras). Decent gun-toting units won't appear until when they historically surpassed the recurved bow - 1862. I already had plans for Camels. Basically, camels are slightly weaker than horses, but have a 50% bonus against horses. Donkeys is a new one. I'll put it to play testing whether it would work or not. :)
 
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