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[mod] Religion and Revolution Extended (modmod of Religion and Revolution)

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Mods and Files' started by Nightinggale, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I would dare to say that an assert, which is triggered by a non-bug is a bug in the trigger condition. In this case the bug is in the cached power, which I assume the AI use to compare players. In theory the AI can believe it has 50 times the military than you and attack even though you are stronger. I don't think it's that bad, but without knowing the cause it could be.


    Sounds likely, though I can't tell precisely how. Breakpoints and stuff should help to figure that out. For a start you could try
    Code:
     FAssertMsg(checkPower(false), CvString::format("Player: %s", getType().c_str()));
    That should tell you which civ cause the assert. You can then just before the assert saying
    Code:
    if (!cmpstr(getType(), "civname")
    {
      int iii = 5; // bogus line to attach a breakpoint to
    }
    
    Set a breakpoint at the = 5 line. Once it triggers you can set breakpoints to your new code in maxCombatStr() and through that approach you can see how it's called by the assert check, if it is at all.

    If your code is called like this, then you need to modify the cache each time the unit moves in or out of owner's territory, which I suspect is an invitation for bugs. Instead you should figure out some way to add the bonus in combat only or something. Look at the promotions. Some of them only give their bonus in certain terrains and they don't cause the power cache to go out of sync.

    I fully agree. When you code something in an existing code you should have a really good reason not to follow the coding style of the code.
     
  2. agnat86

    agnat86 Warlord

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    I'm sorry, I don't quite get it. At which place should I put those lines? Before my code in CvUnit, or before the Assert that triggers in CvPlayer? And what exactly is a breakpoint?
     
  3. colonialfan

    colonialfan Warlord

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    Location:
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    I'm all for keeping the pre-existing civs of the Navajo, Comanche and Crow and adding others as long as it does not cause any balancing issues in the game, or having to relocate civs to areas where they typically did not inhabit. But the technical side is not my forte, someone like Ray or Schmiddie would better know of any potential problems this might cause. Though if civs do need to be replaced, then I think these would probably be the best ones to use.


    Generally speaking, and this is very general, Native Americans as an ethnic group are less hairy than Europeans, Africans and most Asian groups. But none of these groups are an homogeneous mass.

    Facial hair in most North American Native cultures was viewed as unbecoming, and was plucked out by both sexes. However, there are some exceptions. Some native men from tribes on the north-west coast grew facial hair including the Haida.
    There is a belief from some scholars that tribes in the Pacific North-West which include the Haida may represent a second or third wave of migrations from Asia and therefore may be racially distinct from other Native Americans, hence the ability to grow more substantial facial hair. Below I've attached a picture of a Haida man taken in the 1870's. He looks to be around 40ish making his likely birth at a time before generalized European/White American contact in the area inhabited by the Haida.

    b_03833[1].gif


    So the animated leaderhead with facial hair would not be unacceptable and would be consistent with all the other leaderheads we have.

    Here is the link for that Leaderhead. I cannot take any credit for the leaderhead, I believe it was created by VeBear. It was originally intended to represent Indonesia, but if you change the background I think it could work fine. The leaderhead is called Dharmasetu.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15701


    The Ohlone work for me. :goodjob: Like you said there is a long list of tribes to choose from, but they are all relatively small. I don't want to say they are unimportant but they are rather less known, than tribes further east, and they played a much smaller role in the European and later American exploration of the continent. Besides if we have a leaderhead that might work for them I see no reason to change it.

    Thanks. But again I only found it. The credit for it s creation goes to Dumanios, R8XFT, Redalert, Mobilize and kevinman4404. The Seminole are better known, but I think the Timucua are a more appropriate choice. Here is the link, the leaderhead is called Siyaj Kak.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=19087


    I like the idea of putting in the Cree, maybe using the Navajo leaderhead with a few minor adjustments, new background, different color shirt. Plus as this map shows the differing Cree tribes did cover a large area, which currently is unoccupied on a Geographically correct map using historical placements.

    CreeDialects[1].png


    You are welcome. If these changes are going to be made and you need help to compile the bio's, village names, great generals, leaders etc., let me know I'd be more than happy to lend a hand.:)
     
  4. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I think you should study debugging before you "go ahead and try" debugging the DLL. Use google to find guides/tutorials. I did and I found this
    Spoiler :

    Once you understand this, then come back and read what I wrote again. You should be able to understand what I wrote when you figured out how the debugger works.
     
  5. agnat86

    agnat86 Warlord

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    Ok, thanks for that. I'll look into it.:thumbsup:

    The problem seems to be solved, anyway. At least, I now have a version which runs 200 turns on autoplay without trouble. I'll upload it to Schmiddie's SVN as soon as possible.
     
  6. Yamato

    Yamato Warlord

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    Ok, a missing step in your TortoiseGit instructions. I downloaded TortoiseGit, and I went to the directory that you specified, and right clicked on Gitclone, and then I'm given a choice that you do not mention. Set MsysGit path or Open msysGit Websit.
    If I choose Set MsysGit Path another window opens up. If I select the other option, a webpage opens up. Which these do I use, and how?
    Either way does not give me any obvious path to download R&R
     
  7. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Good luck on this cooperation project! :)
    I would love to see those 4 new native tribes you are talking about
    Haida and Cree is for sure, and a tribe from California and Florida as you guys mentioned
    From Florida I would choose the Seminole though

    Btw, the first LH was made by Den9510 a couple years ago, as Gajah Mada (VeBear only put together the civ)
    The second LH is an improved version of it by Novator


     
  8. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I haven't updated RaRE for a while and most of the improvements from RaRE are added in RaR 1.6. For the moment I recommend you use RaR 1.6 as it contain more bug fixes and the only missing thing from RaRE is feeder service.


    I guess I should update the first post to tell this.
     
  9. agnat86

    agnat86 Warlord

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    Thanks for the research!:thumbsup:

    The bearded leaderhead seems to be fitting, when I compare it with the picture you shared. Also, it's quite different from all other native leaderheads we have, so this will add a lot of diversity.

    Thanks!

    I think this one could definitely be used, though I think the improved version AbsintheRed shared would be the best.

    Californian tribes are less known than eastern tribes, but I think that's mainly because they were conquered by the Spanish instead of the British/Americans. The tribes further to the east played a major role in American westward expansion, a part of history that's just more known to the general public than the Spanish missions in California.

    The quality of this LH is somewhat poorer than of the others, so I'm not sure yet about it.:dunno:

    That would be great. I myself have made city lists for the Timucua, Ohlone, Haida and Yupik, which you maybe can use as a basis for those tribes. I have done nothing else yet.

    Spoiler :
    Apalachee:

    Anhaica (capital)
    Asile
    Uzachile
    Ivitachuco
    Capachequi
    Urriparacoxi
    Aute

    Timucua:

    Tacatacuru
    Potano
    Utina
    Yustaga
    Cascangue
    Yufera
    Ibi
    Mocoso
    Uzita
    Alachua
    Ocale
    Saturiwa
    Acuera
    Tocaste
    Suwanee
    Guale
    Mocama
    Etoquale
    Malapaz
    Napituca
    Tocobaga
    Icafui
    Cholupaha
    Uriutina
    Mayaca
    Guazoco
    Utinamocharra
    Itaraholata
    Uqueten
    Luca
    Vicela

    Generals/leaders:
    Hirrihigua
    Acuera
    Olotaraca
    Satouriona
    Outina
    Potanou
    Tacatacuru
    Dulchanchellin

    Haida:

    <Cities>
    <City>Ninstints</City>
    <City>Masset</City>
    <City>Kiusta</City>
    <City>Hlgaagilda</City>
    <City>Kung</City>
    <City>Yan</City>
    <City>Kayung</City>
    <City>Hiellan</City>
    <City>Cha'atl</City>
    <City>Haina</City>
    <City>Kaisun</City>
    <City>Cumshewa</City>
    <City>Skedans</City>
    <City>Tanu</City>
    <City>Skungwai</City>
    <City>Klinkwan</City>
    <City>Sukkwan</City>
    <City>Howkan</City>
    <City>Kasaan</City>
    <City>Dadens</City>
    <City>Yaku</City>
    <City>Kitimat</City>
    <City>Metlakatla</City>
    <City>Ketchikan</City>
    <City>Duu Gusd</City>
    <City>Naikun</City>
    <City>Khunghit</City>
    <City>Atewaas </City>
    <City>Jaahguhl </City>
    <City>Hlk’yah GaawGa</City>
    <City>Tlell</City>

    </Cities>


    Generals/Leader:
    Skaay
    Cumshewa
    Koyah
    Cuneah


    Yupik:

    Elim
    Golovin
    Unalakleet
    Pastuliq
    Kotlik
    Marayaaq
    Chevak
    Qaluyaaq
    Nunapitchuk
    Kasigluk
    Atmautluak
    Chefornak
    Kipnuk
    Kongiganek
    Kwigillingok
    Eek
    Quinhagak
    Nunivaaq
    Tuyuryak

    Ohlone:


    Karkin
    Chochenyo
    Ramaytush
    Tamyen
    Awaswas
    Mutsun
    Rumsen
    Chalon
    Yelamu
    Shagunte
    Shalaihme
    Zucigim
    Partacsi
    Lamchin
    Quiroste
    Pruristac
    Huchian
    Ichxenta
    Altahmo
    Tayssen
    Unijaima
    Aulintac
    Urebure
    Socoisuka
    Tuchayune
    Pala
    Uypi
    Chaloctac
    Tulomo
    Sokel
    Ahwaste
    Lamaytu
    Taunan
    Kalindaruk
    Amuctac
    Pelnen
    Chatumu
    Wacharon
    Asirin
    Somontac
    Petlenuc
    Tuibun
    Pitac

    Even more village names for Ohlone:
    Chiguan
    Cotegen
    Oljon
    Romonan
    Aleitac
    Uturbe
    Timigtac
    Chutchui
    Sitlintac
    Tubsinta
    Puichon
    Alson
    Churistac
    Matalan
    Ritocsi
    Muyson
    Pornen
    Soclhequis
    Thamien
    Causen
    Luecha
    Jalquin
    Seunen
    Souyen
    Ssaoam
    Achista
    Chitactac
    Cotoni
    Olpen
    Sayanta
    Aptos
    Cajastaca
    Ansaime
    Chipuctac
    Tomoi
    Wacheron

    Generals:
    Xigmacse
    Isuu


    Note, however, that my idea of putting in these tribes is still very ambitious for me, as I have no real modding experience whatsoever. I can add tribes in XML and give them unique behaviors and characters, but we can only add these tribes if someone with experience in graphical modding can find the time to add graphics for them.

    The Seminole are an option, but I'd prefer the Timucua, because they played a major role much earlier in colonization history than the Seminole. Currently, most of the northern tribes were prominent in the 18th/19th centuries, around the time of the American independance war. I'd like to have some tribes in the north as well which were already present in the 15th century, like the Timucua. They actually did play an important role in the history of Florida, around the time the Spanish and French were fighting over Florida.

    Thanks very much! I think this LH can be quite useful.:goodjob:
     
  10. agnat86

    agnat86 Warlord

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    @Schmiddie & Nightinggale:

    I've uploaded all changes I made to Schmiddie's SVN,so you can check them out.

    I hope you like it!
     
  11. colonialfan

    colonialfan Warlord

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    I think so too, and it would be nice to have a civ in the North West.

    Absolutely. Good find AbsintheRed.:goodjob:

    I agree. Western tribes, even those that are more widely known such as Ute, Shoshone, Nez Perce, etc., generally played a much smaller role in the history of European exploration of the America's and US westward expansion, as compared to their eastern neighbors. However, I see no reason why there cannot be lesser known tribes in the game as well.

    Granted its not as good as the others but its the closest I've been able to find to approximate the physical appearance of the Timucua. I keep searching to see if there is anything better out there. It's one of the problems that we had on RaR when trying to find new native civs.

    Sure thing. Thanks for getting it started for me. I'll do the research for the Haida and Ohlone first as they are probably going to be definite civs included. I should have them done by the end of next week. As for the Creek, Timucua, I'll hold off on these until there is a clear consensus on if they are to be used. Not sure about the Yupik?(They might be too similar to the Inuit and Haida, and I think we might struggle finding a suitable leaderhead).

    I have no modding experience either. My forte on the RaR team is historical and ethnological/graphical research, and compiling the biographical/historical info for each tribe. Schmiddie is the graphics wiz. He might be able to assist in that department.

    I would prefer the Timucua also for very much the same reasons. They were in Florida when the first Conquistadores arrived. What would eventually become the Seminole tribe migrated to Florida from Georgia and Alabama in the early 18th century.
     
  12. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    Thanks!

    A lot of changes...I think this will need some time to check, since we have to check this ingame. ;):)

    Maybe nightinggale could have a look regarding the effect on the performance and the correctness of the code? I'm not able to do this.

    However, I already found one little bug:



    ...the same with the enty "on water".


    Maybe you could have a look at this. :)
     

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  13. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I haven't checked your changes yet, but I do know it would have been easier to see the changes if the unmodified files were committed first and then your changes. After all SVN is made to display changed lines between each commit, which is used to track bugs.

    I committed project files and a brand new Makefile (2.1. I haven't even uploaded it to the forum yet). This should allow us to talk about how to set up stuff and how to compile as we share the project. I decided to put it together with the source files themselves because that would be an ideal location to keep it when releasing a stable release. All the temporal compiler files, which used to mess up the directory have been moved to a temp_files (Makefile 2.1 addition), which mean redistributing the source could be reduced to just deleting this directory. I still recommend checking out a clean version as a few files (like logs and the directories mentioned below) are placed elsewhere.

    Usage guide is like I announced earlier:
    There is also a few things to do in DLL_DLL_Sources.
    Copy Boost-1.32.0 and Python24 from CvGameCoreDLL in the game install directory (the one in program files containing vanilla files). Place those two directories in DLL_Sources.
    There is also a more advanced solution, which avoids copying the directories, but the setup is advanced as well. Read the top of Makefile if you are interested.

    Go inside DLL_Sources\bin. In here should be two exe files. Read the txt files for download links and place them there. Strictly speaking they aren't 100% needed, but one avoids problems and the other one allows much faster compilation.

    Now the DLL has been committed, but I propose to delete it once everybody with access can compile it themselves. We are talking about a 4.1 MB file, which change often.

    EDIT:
    Yeah I will do that. However the lack of a proper before commit makes a bit tricky to compare. However I rarely quit just because things get tricky.

    Also seeing the screenshot makes me remember that I didn't say this: Starting with Makefile 2.1, the makefile's default path setup asks Windows for C:\Program Files (x86) rather than using it hardcoded, meaning it should work on 32 bit systems as well as non-English systems with the default setup. I sense a German Windows nearly :)
     
  14. orlanth

    orlanth Storm God. Yarr!

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    There are already thirty native civs and corresponding leaderheads and sets of graphics present in RaR, which is quite a lot compared to the actual number of tribes that realistically were a strategically significant political entity in the terms of this game (ie occupying significant land mass with multiple populated settlements and able to resist outsiders in a coordinated way). I'd really agree with agnat's intial aim of wanting to focus on making actual gameplay differences between them more important, rather than adding more civs with different graphical appearances, though its difficult to make gameplay reality truly different given the very limited and fixed role of natives in the vanilla game. For instance drjest recently worked on lots of new and modified native traits only to find that most of them didn't make much actual difference (anyway after lots of other threads about natives being limited in the vanilla game, I won't rehash those again here).

    For these & other reasons, after adding more of these civs it was decided several times in the lengthy RaR native civs thread to put a final/absolute stop to continuing to add more (only to always go back on it later). I actually think that's ok since those kinds of decisions are made to be broken lol. Likewise it's perfectly ok to keep adding more and more if that's really what you want to focus on doing. But why would you want to focus on doing this, and at what point would you stop?
     
  15. agnat86

    agnat86 Warlord

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    That one is easily fixed. I made an error originally when writing texts for this function, and when I corrected it, I forgot to correct it in other languages than English.

    I'll correct in it SVN as soon as possible.

    You're right, I hadn't thought about that. Maybe it's best if I commit the original version now, and subsequently the version containing my changes? That way, you can see them all at once.
     
  16. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    That would be a good idea. Otherwise there is a high risk that the black spot in the log will hide a bug, which hurts us later.

    There is no reason to commit a new DLL for those commits though. Just text based source files.
     
  17. colonialfan

    colonialfan Warlord

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    The Haida occupy linguistically and territorially only a small area. A larger group would in a perfect world be more preferable.

    A Na-Dene language based Civ would certainly occupy a much larger region on the map, but there is a controversy over whether or not the Haida truly belong to that group. Some see them as a separate branch of the Na-Dene linguistic tree others as being a completely different linguistic group who likely migrated to the America's at a different time to their neighbors.

    We have clumped together linguistic groups before, the Algonquian people in the game being a prime example, with a female leader, which although unusual was not unknown amongst some Algonquian speaking tribes. So we could use the suggested Haida leaderhead as a very general representation of the Na-Dene or rather the "Athabaskan" people. However, most of these people did not exhibit facial hair. Again we come back to the age old problem of suitable leaderheads.:sad:

    The Dene as a separate tribe would certainly be a good contender if we had a good leaderhead. I known there is one for the Chipewyan leader Thanadelthur out there, but it is really low quality, and none of the current leaderheads we have would match the physical appearance of the Dene without a lot of work being done. The closest would probably be the Comanche leaderhead but he would need a new background and new clothing.
     
  18. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Actually we did need a lot of Native Tribes for balancing of our MapSize "Gigantic".
    If we would have had only a few Native Tribes, the single Native Tribes would have been too powerful on the map.
    But the current balancing of the RaR Mod considering amount of Natives seems to be fine to me.

    The main reasons why we wanted to stop adding more were:

    1. Size of the Mod and Performance (Loading, Ingame)
    2. Quality (We had big problems finding further good graphics for Leaderheads and Units.)
    3. Effort (Creating / improving graphics, balancing, texts, ...)
    4. Maps (Each time you increase max number of Civs in DLL you need to adjust all existing maps. Scenarios with fixed Native Villages need to be recreated.)

    Modding is mainly about fun. :)
    If modders have fun creating further Nations, then they should do it.
     
  19. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    I totally agree Orlanth!

    I'm not a friend of implementing more native tribes.

    Furthermore there are no really nice unit graphics available.


    Do we really need new or changed natives? I'm not sure as well...

    I suggest that we stop the discussion about new and/or changed native tribes right now or at least until we have implemented the other things we want to do.
     
  20. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    Leading already has a big FAIL written on it when it comes to RaR and mods of it. HOW TO: Get your mod to load faster.
    I don't think SVN is the right place to place a packed file, but at least releases should be packed.

    I don't know about performance when it comes to this. From what I can tell it's a question of memory usage. If the number of ingame natives is constant, but they have more civs to pick when when selecting natives, then the amount of active memory would be around the same. I don't think this is an issue unless we are hitting the 4 GB limit or using (way?) more memory than the computer has available.


    So do I.

    This is basically what it comes down to for me. If you don't have anything worth adding, then don't. It does take some decent graphics because we already have quite a number of natives with good graphics.

    I fully agree with that statement as well. It would be nice to have more natives (if we had the right graphics), but it's not something which will change much in the game.
     

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