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[mod] Religion and Revolution Extended (modmod of Religion and Revolution)

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Mods and Files' started by Nightinggale, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    IMO it's always good to keep a common SVN.
    Everyone involved can easily test all the recent changes by the others, and will be able to improve all aspects.
    For example agnat's balancing changes would probably be further improved, up until everyone is statisfied with them. Same for the latest and planned additions.
    Naturally this means everyone have to be somewhat flexible about their planned changes, but in my experience this works best when it's about modding

    I don't think it's desirable to have 3 different, and only slightly different modmods.
    Neither for the modders, nor for the players (which is way more important)
     
  2. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Chieftain Supporter

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    I don't really mind using this thread. However it did cause a naming confusion. We never really said anything about a name, but the main screen says "Religion and Revolution. Schmiddie edition". I guess that would be the name unless somebody objects and I'm ok with that name.

    Having more than one almost identical mod is counter productive. For instance I cached output from CvPlayer::getYieldEquipmentAmount() in RaRE because it makes the AI turn 21% faster. I then copied it into Medieval Tech, which needed extra work because Kailric had changed some of the affected lines. After that Ray copied it into RaR 1.6. This is one feature, but it has already been coded 3 times. Now if RaRE didn't split out from RaR, then I would have committed it directly to RaR in the first place and Ray could have spend his coding time elsewhere. I think this is the worst aspect of having multiple MODS. Too much time spend on getting improvements from other mods.

    I spend quite some time moving features from one mod to another and I got tired of its inefficiency. When I moved the domestic advisor from RaRE to M:C, I realized I would have to maintain two versions, which I didn't want to do (it's mostly maintain free, but still). Because of that I didn't just add the the M:C related stuff. Instead it's written like "if inventions are set in XML, then add inventions column". Now it's one file, which works in both M:C and RaR meaning you can code for two mods at once. We really should think more like this because it's optimized for the one thing we lack most of all: developer's coding time.

    Long story short: the less MODS we have the less time we will spend moving code from one to another.

    And btw I'm not saying we should merge M:C with RaR. It's just that even though they are really different they still share more MOD code than the average gamer realize.
     
  3. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    That is definitely true. :thumbsup:

    But in order to work on one common mod (which could be the base for sliglthly modified private versions) there need to be discussions and planning.

    Some kind of common goal / agreement / consense must be found.

    Also to implement major features some kind of work organization is needed.

    And in a big mod with several team members you must introduce some system of quality control.
    (If many people are just throwing in their changes you will most likely end up with a totally unbalanced and bugged mod.)

    Actually that was not such a big issue, because I would have thoroughly checked the code anyways, because I (used to) do that with all changes within the mod.
    But yes, it would have saved me some time.

    Other important aspects that eat up lots of time are testing and quality assurance.
    If you have many mods, you need to do that many times.

    Well, currently there are about 10 people out there that do modmodding of RaR which I know.
    (Half of them for private purposes without intention to publish themselves.)

    Only staying in contact and discussion ideas already takes lots of time.
    Not to speak about effectively sharing around changes and improvments.

    And the less overhead you will have for discussing, planning, testing, quality assurance, bug analyzes ...
    And the more efficiently you will be able to create major features that need lots of coding, graphics, alpha-testing, texts, ...

    ------------

    There is no doupt, that working in a team has many many advantages.
    No single modder could ever create a big mod in the same quality and efficiency as a big team could.

    But there are also disadvantages.
    There is a lot more "overhead" for organizing and discussing.
    And of course, you cannot simply decide all aspects alone.

    I am running up and down this community preaching about the advantages of big teams.
    But until now, there have only been 2 projects for Civ4Col (TAC and RaR) where I have actually seen that happen.

    ------------

    Edit:

    I start feeling like a Parrot because I repeat myself over and over. :)
    Whatever you guys will do, have fun doing it ! :thumbsup:
     
  4. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    The name doesn't matter at all, let it be RaR Extended or RaR Scmiddie's Edition.
    But I absolutely agree with Ray. The 3 of you should work as a team, on a single SVN.
    The benefits are much bigger than what you lose this way.
    Maybe others will join you guys as well.
     
  5. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Chieftain Supporter

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    Looks like the efforts are currently set to RaR. Nothing has been committed to Schmiddies for more than a week while RaR has around 5 commits a day. Maybe it would be best to declare that Schmiddies svn restarts based on RaR 1.7 when it's released instead of backporting so many commits.

    And before you become overjoyed with the huge amount of commits: they include stuff like "translated this one line to German" meaning it's very far from 5 new features/day.
     
  6. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Chieftain

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    Correct, we are currently doing some balancing and translating issues.

    Furthermore we are implementing some (very) little features like the new "settler's militia" and more achievements (this needs some time).

    Furthermore we have included a lot of improvements of agnat86 (balancing and translation) into the base version of RaR (we ever try to make the original RaR better).

    But there is no one of the original team who seems to be interested in working on a big new feature (probably due to missing time)?!

    So do you like to work on a new bigger feature for the base version (I think we don't need to work on a sub-version of RaR if we could implement it in the upcoming RaR version 1.7... )?

    What are you interested in?

    As I wrote in my PN, I'm very interested to get the following new features for example:

    - Africa screen and slave market / triangle trade
    - some new (historical) events
    - maybe different European harbors
    - seaways – the player can mark points on the playermap for easier and faster sailing (DoaNE has implemented this feature)
    - more and different interaction with other European KI or the other monarchs.
    - Maybe a further monarch who is not the monarch of a nation ingame but who can act with the player (maybe for trade of goods and weapons or mercenaries)


    Further interesting things could be - for example / for discussion -
    - maybe some new buildings for natives that make them more different (difference between farming or hunting tribes for example)

    What are your impressions/ideas for new features?
     
  7. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Yes, the concepts
    Africa (similar to Europe Screen) and
    Other European Harbours (buying the right to trade in European Harbours of other Nations from that Nation's King)
    were always some of my favourites. :)

    Sadly however, there simply did not exist the background screens for them at the time I wanted to code them.
    (And without those different background screens in TAC / RaR quality and style the feature would have looked a bit stupid.)

    Yes, but they did not share the code.
     
  8. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Chieftain

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    Obviously no mod-modder is interested to work on these features..what a pity!!!

    Therefore I'm very, very happy that ray will come back for the implementation of two bigger features... :goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:
     
  9. Willi_Tell

    Willi_Tell praefectus praetorio

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    Check your PN, buddy... ;)
     
  10. agnat86

    agnat86 Chieftain

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    I think it's best if we do that, otherwise we'll be committing everything we add twice. Though it would mean I would have to add my additions again (not all of them, as ray has included some of them in his SVN).

    If any of you have encountered problems with my additions, or things you absolutely dislike, please tell me, then I'll leave them out of it, once we restart this again.
     
  11. vetiarvind

    vetiarvind Chieftain

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    I'm pretty new to the import feeder, but is there a way to limit the quantity of a yield to import? I know that the import automation will turn off at 75% of the set value, but sometimes I notice that while I have a feeder set for a yield whose domestic consumption is little, for eg. 1 per turn, and having a smallish import feed threshold of ~30, the automation will dump 100 goods of the yield while the quantity is less than the threshold. This isn't a big issue in towns where warehouse capacity is a non-issue, but for busy towns having 100 of each yield can get very heavy. So, is there anyway to have a "max amount" for import similar to the "keep" amounts we have for export?

    If there is no way to do this and more people want this feature to be implemented, I might set some time to create a modmod (assuming this is part of the RaR mod), with help from Nightinggale?

    Edit - I have made this change as part of the Taxes and Navigation modmod.
     
  12. Dunpeal

    Dunpeal Chieftain

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    If this modmod has been incorporated to R&R 1.6 should it not be un-stickied? :D
     
  13. eXPonent_123

    eXPonent_123 Chieftain

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  14. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Chieftain Supporter

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    The contents of RaRE is included in RaR 2.5 and RaRE is no longer updated.
     
  15. eXPonent_123

    eXPonent_123 Chieftain

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    those. RaR 2.5 contains all files:
    Basic fashion +
    Rare 2.5 - 2.5.2
    Where to download RaR 2.5?
     
  16. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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  17. eXPonent_123

    eXPonent_123 Chieftain

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    Yes, I understand everything, but I would like to consider previous versions
    if possible
     
  18. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Chieftain Supporter

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    For some reason RaR has a history of only having the newest version available for downloading. In this case I would recommend you just use the newest anyway because 2.5.x releases are mainly about bugfixes.
     
  19. eXPonent_123

    eXPonent_123 Chieftain

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  20. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Chieftain

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    You should not do that. We have not tested this - as posted only the latest version should be used.
     

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